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List:       opensuse
Subject:    [opensuse] Re: kernel-desktop
From:       Yamaban <foerster () lisas ! de>
Date:       2015-10-27 10:11:12
Message-ID: alpine.LFD.2.20.1510271038350.26838 () rhlx01 ! hs-esslingen ! de
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On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:38, Per Jessen <per@...> wrote:
> Basil Chupin wrote:
>> On 21/10/15 18:17, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess it was only the default on desktop systems, but I'd have to
>>> double-check what goes in the minimum text-only pattern.
>>> It was presumably created to be a better, i.e. faster and more
>>> responsive kernel for a desktop user.  It's not so long ago either -
>>> kernel-desktop turned up in openSUSE 11.2, about six years ago.
>>
>> In an earlier post you mention that the change from desktop to default
>> was because SLE uses kernel-default.
>>
>> The question which follows from what you wrote above is: don't SLE
>> users use workstations the same as those used by you and me
>
> Quite likely.
>
>> and which come from openSUSE to begin with?
>
> Uh, what does that mean?  What comes from openSUSE to begin with?
>
>> The question which then follows is: why aren't the SLE users allowed
>> the enjoyment of using a faster responsive system than they now have
>
> Dunno, maybe the kernel-desktop didn't actually produce a faster, more
> response system in the end.

It did, at least at the starting time.

During the early days of kernel 2.6, the scheduling wasn't as nice and
up to the task as it is today.
'Real-time' or near real-time scheduling just did not work outside
the *-rt kernels.
And the -rt kernels in turn wheren't nice to the desktop users.

Thus case the 1000Hz timers and the PREEMPT settings, but at the beginning
these played not nice with many server apps. So, no 'default' for these.

In the start of the *-desktop kernels with 1000Hz and PREEMPT setting,
the ones who profited the most where audio and video apps.
Skype on linux whould have been impossible without these settings,
at least at the time it started (-- before Android was born).
Same with Audio workstations. LADSPA needed near realtime.

Googles work on Android, and the push-back of some of this code into
the public kernel changed the situation.

Google wanted tickless and realtime, and worked hard to make it
possible, and public.

So, most of what caused the seperation of -desktop from -default
is already in 'default-on' and thus in default.

Running heavy audio-apps is possible on prior -default and -vanilla
kernels due to the realtime-daemon and realtime privileges.

Skype works on SLED 12 (-default kernel).

Enabling preemptive scheduling for -default kernels however is a nice
gesture to make shure that there are very little differences in daily
usage remaining.

Remaining things like 'mouse/pointer' lag point to deeper troubles,
that have been 'painted over' by a higher forced-by-timer rate of 
scheduling. Here, isolating the app that causes this should be the
task, not crying for more ticks-per-second.

I'm using -default since OSS 12.3 (kernel 3.7).

  - Yamaban
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