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List:       opensuse
Subject:    Re: [opensuse] 11.0 KDE 4 {Not Ready for Prime Time - We told you so!}
From:       John <john_82 () tiscali ! co ! uk>
Date:       2008-06-21 9:43:09
Message-ID: 200806211043.09144.john_82 () tiscali ! co ! uk
[Download RAW message or body]

On Saturday 21 June 2008 09:49:04 Benji Weber wrote:
> 2008/6/21 Matt Archer <archer.matt08@gmail.com>:
> > Benji Weber wrote:
> >> This is rather a misrepresentation. Significant changes were made
> >> after the discussion on the lists and bugzilla.
> >
> > But nowhere close to being what KDE users expect.
>
> What it actually says is:
>
> "KDE 4.0 is the most recent evolution of KDE. It comes with many new
> KDE technologies, but is less mature than the other desktops."
>
> "KDE 3.5 is the previous generation of the K Desktop Environment. It
> is mature and stable." [0]
>
> Which I think is fairly clear. There is no default KDE in the DVD
> installer. While it is not as mature as KDE 3.x, KDE4.0 is now ready
> for many users. I will not be switching to it myself for a while, but
> I have specific requirements. KDE 4.x is also what the KDE team have
> been working on improving and integrating for months, while KDE 3 is
> pretty much just included in the same state it was in previous
> releases.
>
> > Apparently, Novell is trying to push KDE 4 hard so that they
> > can get a lot of fanfare out of beryl... but no matter how
> > good it is, if it's resting on top of an immature version of
> > KDE, who wants or needs it?
>
> What I find somewhat irksome is your analysis of the situation. There
> was not some mandate from Novell management "Thou shalt use KDE4.0".
> There was significant discussion with the community with regard to the
> plans for KDE4.0, on the mailing lists, at project meetings, and on
> bugzilla. The outcome was to present both the cutting edge KDE4.0 and
> the stable KDE3.5 to allow users to choose. I notice that many of the
> people complaining in this thread did not involve themselves in the
> discussions at the time.
>
> The KDE team who are actually doing the work decided to put all their
> effort into making KDE4.0 ready. If they were focusing more on KDE 3.x
> then KDE4.0 would be in a much worse state now than it is. Both
> upstream and the major downstream distributions are focusing almost
> entirely on KDE4.0 now. KDE 4.0 is where bugs will be fixed, whereas
> KDE 3.5 is likely to just stagnate.
>
> If you have stability issues in KDE 4.0 please bug report
> them(specific, not general), then they can be fixed. Even if a bug
> seems blindingly obvious to you, it may be that other people have not
> noticed it, or it does not occur on other configurations.
>
> As for the state of KDE 4.0 being the cause of bad reviews, that is
> not the case so far. We have headlines such as "openSUSE 11.0
> released, offers best KDE 4 experience"[1] and comments such as "The
> openSUSE version of KDE 4 alone is worth the download"[2] "still I'd
> rather work on this than 3.5." [3]. While other reviewers have stated
> that they opted for 3.5 as it is more mature.
>
> __
> [0] http://en.opensuse.org/Image:OS11.0-inst-6.jpg
> [1]
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080620-first-look-opensuse-11-out-of
>fers-best-kde-4-experience.html [2] http://www.linux.com/feature/139073
> [3]
> http://alternativenayk.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/the-first-24-hours-with-ope
>nsuse-11-kde-4/
>
> --
> Benjamin Weber

This has been discussed many many time for several days on this list before.

My personal view is great suse have put out the most stable and complete kde4 
available with any current distro. However people who are not familiar with 
positive vibe type statements about software are likely to be in for a 
surprise if they go to the trouble of installing with kde4 and find expected 
software not included or even available and even more surprised as they find 
bugs.

On suse's install some one on here has stated that gnome is top of the list as 
g comes before K. One has to ask oneself why 3.5..... doesn't come before 4. 
That would have made the point a lot clearer. Gnome is top of the list. Since 
the suse statement that g comes before k I've lost all interest in this 
subject. My belief is that they are chasing ubuntu and head line grabbing. 
This isn't suse's traditional approach to distro production. Stability was 
it's byword. Looks like it isn't anymore. Much stressed in my case by 10.3 
x86_64.

I still await with great interest a statement from suse on their intentions 
when kde4.1 and 4.1 final appears not long after. Are we all expected to re 
install the lot again?

John

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