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List: opensim-dev
Subject: [Opensim-dev] llDetectedType and NPC's
From: jjustincc () googlemail ! com (Justin Clark-Casey)
Date: 2012-07-25 0:03:32
Message-ID: 500F37D4.4060703 () googlemail ! com
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As a result of discussion on this list and in the relevant Mantis entries, in order \
to avoid future clashes with possible LL use of an NPC constant, in git master \
bcfc392 (Fri Jul 20 21:08:04 2012) I implemented OS_NPC. This can be used in \
llSensor(). The NPC constant is now deprecated but will remain valid.
llGetDetectedType() from git master ecf7bb26 (Fri Jul 20 21:36:33 2012) will set the \
OS_NPC flag if an NPC is detected. If the NPC was created with \
OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT it will also set the AGENT flag.
On 12/07/12 16:43, Argus wrote:
> I think Dahlia means the symbolic constant being the same. Dahlia pointed out in \
> the mantis that LL might be implementing the symbolic constant NPC for something \
> else...
> Am 12.07.2012 04:19, schrieb Melanie:
> > Then it will be a case in point to use symbolic constants, not magic
> > numbers.
> >
> > Melanie
> >
> > On 12/07/2012 03:58, Dahlia Trimble wrote:
> > > So what happens when LL defines "NPC" and it means something different that
> > > what is defined in OpenSimulator?
> > >
> > > And yes, I believe the probability is quite high that they will eventually
> > > define it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
> > > jjustincc at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's a neat solution, Argus. Since the intention of
> > > > OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT was to provide compatibility rather than 'fool', I
> > > > think returning both NPC and AGENT flags would be perfectly acceptable.
> > > > Let's see if there are any other comments, otherwise I think we can
> > > > proceed along those lines. I'm still not that happy with extending
> > > > llDetectedType() but leakage has already occurred and I suspect its
> > > > inevitable.
> > > >
> > > > On another note, I'm not sure what 'plausibility' checks you're referring
> > > > to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/07/12 13:04, Argus wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am fully aware of the open source factor and that in each open grid
> > > > > everything can be changed, which is why one always
> > > > > needs backend function to make sure no fals information is passed on to
> > > > > the central service. One can however filter 99%
> > > > > of the fals data in the local sim which helps the central service because
> > > > > it does not need to process every single
> > > > > plausability checks. In a multi grid environment with closed grids we
> > > > > even have a lower chance of false data beeing
> > > > > passed than in a open grid only environment.
> > > > >
> > > > > We have the same situations in opensim were the simulator often does
> > > > > some local plausability checks before it send
> > > > > data to the gridservers. The gridservers again do a plausability check
> > > > > combined with other methods which are not
> > > > > available on the local sim. Only if all steps are plausable the data gets
> > > > > processed further.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I added a new patch for llDetectedType were NPCs always return
> > > > > NPC and useing OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT will returns
> > > > > AGENT + NPC. I think that is an acceptable compromize... I also added an
> > > > > example script were the true NPC detection
> > > > > always makes sense ;)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 11.07.2012 02:01, schrieb Justin Clark-Casey:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Argus, if your system relies on always reliably identifying unique
> > > > > > avatars then that is simply not possible in any
> > > > > > OpenSimulator environment where simulators are controlled by third
> > > > > > parties or where hypergrid travel is allowed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even if OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT did not exist, then people would be able
> > > > > > to compile a version of the code that did have
> > > > > > that functionality. This is not about ideology - it's about what is
> > > > > > physically possible!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Equally, it is perfectly possible to create duplicate HG details -
> > > > > > anything can be put in the agent data that comes
> > > > > > from a foreign grid (justin at hg.osgrid.org or whatever). You cannot
> > > > > > rely on these to be unique either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Without any central authority (like DNS, the secure certificate
> > > > > > infrastructure of something like Bitcoin block chains)
> > > > > > it is simply not possible to uniquely identify avatars.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't see this as much different from the web where one has to get
> > > > > > people to create unique accounts with passwords
> > > > > > in order to identify them later. Such a thing has to be done in some
> > > > > > authority system outside of OpenSimulator itself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If your point is that without OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT then the vast
> > > > > > majority of systems would always present NPCs as
> > > > > > NPCs (rather than agents) then I would agree. In fact, in practice most
> > > > > > people won't use OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT anyway
> > > > > > as it's the option rather than the default. But you cannot rely on
> > > > > > uniquely identifying avatars on any environment
> > > > > > outside those that you directly control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a minor note, script functions that don't make any sense for NPCs
> > > > > > should behave as if the UUID they received did
> > > > > > not relate to a valid entity for that function.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________**_________________
> > > > > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > > > Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > > > > https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> > > > http://justincc.org/blog
> > > > http://twitter.com/justincc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________**_________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org/blog
http://twitter.com/justincc
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