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List: openjdk-2d-dev
Subject: Re[3]: Stage Manager Problems
From: "Jeremy Wood" <mickleness () gmail ! com>
Date: 2023-02-27 10:10:29
Message-ID: emc4ab4a5b-6656-4c99-8151-97abbb0fb754 () 44eb8e0b ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
FWIW: I wrapped this exploration up by submitting two bug reports:
9074851, 9074856 .
Regards,
- Jeremy
------ Original Message ------
From "Jeremy Wood" <mickleness@gmail.com>
To "Philip Race" <philip.race@oracle.com>; "Harshitha Onkar"
<harshitha.onkar@oracle.com>
Cc "client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" <client-libs-dev@openjdk.org>
Date 2/18/2023 5:22:25 AM
Subject Re[2]: Stage Manager Problems
>I made a 5 min video here:
>
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1al0huWBGhdSeqXrNU_if8HpQGOrxFMFH/view?usp=sharing
>
>(I'll delete this link in a month or two.)
>
>It shows the original complaint, but also around t=3 min it starts to
>show a worse problem:
>
>If you have Stage Manager active and you iconify a JFrame, the JFrame
>never returns to a Frame.NORMAL state. (At least not in this simple
>test.) This leads to major repaint problems.
>
>So… my immediate question is: now what?
>
>Should I take what I have and just submit an openJDK ticket? (Or a
>separate ticket for each problem?) Is it OK to write a ticket with an
>undefined expected behavior, or is that something we should try to
>clarify here first?
>
>Regards,
> - Jeremy
>
>
>------ Original Message ------
>From "Philip Race" <philip.race@oracle.com>
>To "Jeremy Wood" <mickleness@gmail.com>; "Harshitha Onkar"
><harshitha.onkar@oracle.com>
>Cc "client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" <client-libs-dev@openjdk.org>
>Date 2/16/2023 1:31:23 PM
>Subject Re: Stage Manager Problems
>
>> >The more I look at this: I'm afraid the crux of this problem is Stage
>>Manager has introduced a new window state that Java's AWT architecture
>>can't really describe yet. (But I'd love to be proved wrong…?)
>>
>>I think you are right. I do not have Ventura to see / test for myself
>>but everything I am hearing
>>sounds like with Stage Manager active the "minimise" button just
>>causes a different compositing transform
>>to be applied to the window and adds that gesture blocking overlay to
>>make it so that it can't see mouse events
>>or presumably receive focus for keyboard events, and the app is
>>*intentionally* (as in Apple's intention)
>>ignorant of anything having changed in its state.
>>
>>So it is anyone's guess what we can do about this and even if we
>>should do something what would it be ..
>>Maybe there's some clue in the latest SDK - ie a new API ?
>>
>>FWIW One of our team members said he tried this mode for 5 mins but
>>multiple (non-java) apps were
>>so broken in this mode he turned it off again.
>>
>>
>>
>>-phil.
>>
>>
>>On 2/16/23 2:04 AM, Jeremy Wood wrote:
>>>Harshitha,
>>>
>>>Thanks for the suggestions. I think those don't really resolve the
>>>problem, though.
>>>
>>>In the original sample program (having only 1 frame) watching the
>>>keyboard focus could help identify when there's a change, but if
>>>there's a second frame: that second window could retain the focus and
>>>the first window still can't answer the question, "Are you minimized
>>>now?"
>>>
>>>(I have an updated sample program
>>><https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzUUDnAlPoHlFdbVgunwpFKvn4Ies-6-/view?usp=sharing>
>>>here with two frames if anyone's interested.)
>>>
>>>Further: the window could lose the focus at any time (if a system
>>>dialog came up), so I don't think focus should act as a proxy for
>>>visibility.
>>>
>>>I did find tonight a work-around for our app a few hours ago. We have
>>>some native code that identifies all visible windows, their bounds
>>>and their title. If I consult that list: I see a window that matches
>>>our (sufficiently unique) window title. And its bounds do not at all
>>>match with what Java says our window's bounds are. And it is
>>>positioned so 99% of it overlaps with a window called "Gesture
>>>Blocking Overlay". (All Stage Manager thumbnails appear to have an
>>>overlay window with this title.) So it's a very kludgy and brittle
>>>work around, for for the time being it works.
>>>
>>>This leads me to believe the Mac OS windowing system doesn't consider
>>>the frame to be "hidden". I think the window remains technically
>>>visible. And Mac OS knows it has new bounds. But the peer in Java is
>>>oblivious to the new bounds/state. (I examined the peer LWWindowPeer
>>>in a debugger: it still thinks the window is visible (technically
>>>true) and its bounds are unchanged (not true).)
>>>
>>>The more I look at this: I'm afraid the crux of this problem is Stage
>>>Manager has introduced a new window state that Java's AWT
>>>architecture can't really describe yet. (But I'd love to be proved
>>>wrong…?)
>>>
>>> - Jeremy
>>>
>>>------ Original Message ------
>>>From "Harshitha Onkar" <harshitha.onkar@oracle.com>
>>>To "Jeremy Wood" <mickleness@gmail.com>
>>>Cc "client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" < client-libs-dev@openjdk.org>
>>>Date 2/16/2023 1:57:56 AM
>>>Subject RE: Stage Manager Problems
>>>
>>>>Hi Jeremy,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Does any of the following options help in your case to determine
>>>>whether or not the frame is iconified?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>frame.isActive()
>>>>frame.isFocused()
>>>>frame.isAlwaysOnTop()
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks & Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Harshitha Onkar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: client-libs-dev <client-libs-dev-retn@openjdk.org> On Behalf
>>>>Of Jeremy Wood
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 10:08 PM
>>>>To:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org
>>>>Subject: Stage Manager Problems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We're experiencing problems related JFrames while Stage Manager
>>>><https://www.computerworld.com/article/3667999/what-is-apple-stage-manager-and-how-is-it-used.html>
>>>>is active Mac.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>When Stage Manager is active the yellow minimize button on our
>>>>JFrame's appears to "minimize" our app. But as far as our Frame is
>>>>concerned:
>>>>
>>>>1. Frame.getExtendedState() does not indicate we're in an ICONIFIED
>>>>state
>>>>
>>>>2. Frame.isShowing() returns true
>>>>
>>>>3. a java.awt.desktop.AppForegroundListener believes our app is in
>>>>the foreground.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We want to identify when we're in this hidden state. Is there any
>>>>other property we can consult to help identify this state?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm happy to submit an openjdk ticket if needed, but first I wanted
>>>>to sanity check that I'm not missing something. (I also tried
>>>>querying
>>>><https://bugs.openjdk.org/issues/?jql=text%20~%20%22%5C%22Stage%20Manager%5C%22%22>
>>>>the openJDK bug database, but didn't see any hits.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I tried rummaging around in Mac-specific classes (like
>>>>CPlatformWindow), but I didn't see any promising leads. It's always
>>>>possible I missed something, though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Attached is a small 200-line demo app.
>>>>
>>
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<body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: \
after-white-space;"><div><div id="x5272c4ac09a94a138aa37322a7859bd2">FWIW: I wrapped \
this exploration up by submitting two bug reports: 9074851, 9074856 \
.</div></div><div id="x5272c4ac09a94a138aa37322a7859bd2"><span><br \
/></span></div><div id="x5272c4ac09a94a138aa37322a7859bd2"><span>Regards,</span></div><div \
id="x5272c4ac09a94a138aa37322a7859bd2"><span> - Jeremy</span></div> <div><br \
/></div> <div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From "Jeremy Wood" <<a \
href="mailto:mickleness@gmail.com">mickleness@gmail.com</a>></div> <div>To "Philip \
Race" <<a href="mailto:philip.race@oracle.com">philip.race@oracle.com</a>>; \
"Harshitha Onkar" <<a \
href="mailto:harshitha.onkar@oracle.com">harshitha.onkar@oracle.com</a>></div> \
<div>Cc "<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>" \
<<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>></div>
<div>Date 2/18/2023 5:22:25 AM</div>
<div>Subject Re[2]: Stage Manager Problems</div></div><div><br /></div>
<div id="x5bdc69eb930544a" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: \
space; line-break: after-white-space;"><blockquote \
cite="emc3b9f388-53f2-404a-b4eb-8757cebbcbd6@cecdd4f4.com" type="cite" class="cite2"> \
<div>I made a 5 min video here:</div><div><br /></div><div><a \
href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1al0huWBGhdSeqXrNU_if8HpQGOrxFMFH/view?usp=shari \
ng">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1al0huWBGhdSeqXrNU_if8HpQGOrxFMFH/view?usp=sharing</a></div>
<div style="clear:both"><br /></div><div style="clear:both">(I'll delete this link \
in a month or two.)</div><div style="clear:both"><br /></div><div \
style="clear:both">It shows the original complaint, but also around t=3 min it starts \
to show a worse problem:</div><div style="clear:both"><br /></div><div \
style="clear:both">If you have Stage Manager active and you iconify a JFrame, the \
JFrame never returns to a Frame.NORMAL state. (At least not in this simple test.) \
This leads to major repaint problems.</div><div style="clear:both"><br /></div><div \
style="clear:both">So… my immediate question is: now what?</div><div \
style="clear:both"><br /></div><div style="clear:both">Should I take what I have and \
just submit an openJDK ticket? (Or a separate ticket for each problem?) Is it OK to \
write a ticket with an undefined expected behavior, or is that something we should \
try to clarify here first?</div><div style="clear:both"><br /></div><div \
style="clear:both">Regards,</div><div style="clear:both"> - Jeremy</div><div \
style="clear:both"><br /></div> <div><br /></div>
<div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From "Philip Race" <<a \
href="mailto:philip.race@oracle.com">philip.race@oracle.com</a>></div> <div>To \
"Jeremy Wood" <<a href="mailto:mickleness@gmail.com">mickleness@gmail.com</a>>; \
"Harshitha Onkar" <<a \
href="mailto:harshitha.onkar@oracle.com">harshitha.onkar@oracle.com</a>></div> \
<div>Cc "<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>" \
<<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>></div>
<div>Date 2/16/2023 1:31:23 PM</div>
<div>Subject Re: Stage Manager Problems</div></div><div><br /></div>
<div id="xc52c24be3cc046e"><blockquote \
cite="78528704-678e-f117-1af8-83ac93b79365@oracle.com" type="cite" class="cite2">
<div>>The more I look at this: I'm afraid the crux of this
problem is Stage Manager has introduced a new window state that
Java's AWT architecture can't really describe yet. (But I'd love
to be proved wrong…?)
<br />
<br />
I think you are right. I do not have Ventura to see / test for
myself but everything I am hearing
<br />
sounds like with Stage Manager active the "minimise" button just
causes a different compositing transform
<br />
to be applied to the window and adds that gesture blocking overlay
to make it so that it can't see mouse events
<br />
or presumably receive focus for keyboard events, and the app is
*intentionally* (as in Apple's intention)
<br />
ignorant of anything having changed in its state.<br />
<br />
So it is anyone's guess what we can do about this and even if we
should do something what would it be ..
<br />
Maybe there's some clue in the latest SDK - ie a new API ?<br />
<br />
FWIW One of our team members said he tried this mode for 5 mins
but multiple (non-java) apps were
<br />
so broken in this mode he turned it off again.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
-phil.<br />
</div>
<br />
<br />
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/16/23 2:04 AM, Jeremy Wood wrote:<br />
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:em7b75128a-93a4-462c-a802-4a1b7a71000f@17fbc042.com" class="cite">
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<div>Harshitha,</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Thanks for the suggestions. I think those don't really
resolve the problem, though.
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>In the original sample program (having only 1 frame) watching
the keyboard focus could help identify when there's a change,
but if there's a second frame: that second window could retain
the focus and the first window still can't answer the question,
"Are you minimized now?"
</div>
<div>
<div id="xb7307ab26ea540968109403190bd3a01">
<div><br />
</div>
<div>(I have an updated <a \
href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzUUDnAlPoHlFdbVgunwpFKvn4Ies-6-/view?usp=sharing" \
moz-do-not-send="true">sample program</a> here with two frames if anyone's \
interested.) </div>
<div><br />
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>Further: the window could lose the focus at any time (if a
system dialog came up), so I don't think focus should act as a
proxy for visibility.
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>I did find tonight a work-around for our app a few hours ago.
We have some native code that identifies all visible windows,
their bounds and their title. If I consult that list: I see a
window that matches our (sufficiently unique) window title. And
its bounds do not at all match with what Java says our window's
bounds are. And it is positioned so 99% of it overlaps with a
window called "Gesture Blocking Overlay". (All Stage Manager
thumbnails appear to have an overlay window with this title.) So
it's a very kludgy and brittle work around, for for the time
being it works.
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>This leads me to believe the Mac OS windowing system doesn't
consider the frame to be "hidden". I think the window remains
technically visible. And Mac OS knows it has new bounds. But the
peer in Java is oblivious to the new bounds/state. (I examined
the peer LWWindowPeer in a debugger: it still thinks the window
is visible (technically true) and its bounds are unchanged (not
true).)
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>The more I look at this: I'm afraid the crux of this problem
is Stage Manager has introduced a new window state that Java's
AWT architecture can't really describe yet. (But I'd love to be
proved wrong…?)
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div> - Jeremy</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From "Harshitha Onkar" <<a href="mailto:harshitha.onkar@oracle.com" \
moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">harshitha.onkar@oracle.com</a>></div>
<div>To "Jeremy Wood" <<a href="mailto:mickleness@gmail.com" \
moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mickleness@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div>Cc "<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>" <
<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a>></div> <div>Date \
2/16/2023 1:57:56 AM</div> <div>Subject RE: Stage Manager Problems</div>
</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div id="x74a97db6f65d497" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<blockquote cite="BYAPR10MB3350EEB6F196F7440CF1E9AC80A09@BYAPR10MB3350.namprd10.prod.outlook.com" \
type="cite" class="cite2"> <div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi
Jeremy,
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt">Does any of the following options help in your case to \
determine whether or not the frame is iconified?
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> <ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" \
start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 \
lfo2"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">frame.isActive() <o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 \
lfo2"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">frame.isFocused() <o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></li> <li class="MsoListParagraph" \
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt">frame.isAlwaysOnTop()<o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></li> </ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks & Regards,
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Harshitha
Onkar
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
 \
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in
"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> \
client-libs-dev <<a href="mailto:client-libs-dev-retn@openjdk.org" \
moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">client-libs-dev-retn@openjdk.org</a>> <b>On Behalf \
Of </b>Jeremy Wood<br /> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2023 10:08 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:client-libs-dev@openjdk.org" \
moz-do-not-send="true" \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">client-libs-dev@openjdk.org</a><br />
<b>Subject:</b> Stage Manager Problems<o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">We're \
experiencing problems related JFrames while <a \
href="https://www.computerworld.com/article/3667999/what-is-apple-stage-manager-and-how-is-it-used.html" \
moz-do-not-send="true">Stage Manager</a> is active Mac.
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">When Stage \
Manager is active the yellow minimize button on our JFrame's appears to "minimize" \
our app. But as far as our Frame is concerned:
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">1. \
Frame.getExtendedState() does not indicate we're in an ICONIFIED state
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">2. \
Frame.isShowing() returns true <o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">3. a \
java.awt.desktop.AppForegroundListener believes our app is in the foreground.
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">We want to \
identify when we're in this hidden state. Is there any other property we can consult \
to help identify this state?
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I'm happy to \
submit an openjdk ticket if needed, but first I wanted to sanity check that I'm not \
missing something. (I also tried
<a href="https://bugs.openjdk.org/issues/?jql=text%20~%20%22%5C%22Stage%20Manager%5C%22%22" \
moz-do-not-send="true"> querying</a> the openJDK bug database, but didn't
see any hits.)
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I tried \
rummaging around in Mac-specific classes (like CPlatformWindow), but I didn't see \
any promising leads. It's always possible I missed something,
though.
<o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p \
xmlns:o="#unknown"> </o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Attached is a \
small 200-line demo app. <o:p xmlns:o="#unknown"></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br />
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</body></html>
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