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List:       openbsd-misc
Subject:    Re: guide newcomers better
From:       Tobias Weingartner <weingart () natasha ! tepid ! org>
Date:       2002-01-03 15:06:19
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On Wednesday, January 2, Neels Janosch Hofmeyr wrote:
> 
> this mail's subject however is about my being a misguided newcomer:

Someone misguided you?  :-)  Or did you mean a "lost newcomer"?


> i don't expect replies upon this, i just want this to be noted by someone 
> whom it concerns.

Hmm, posting to a mailing list usually means there will be replies.


> upon my installation difficulties, i tried to find people having the same 
> problem, starting on http://www.openbsd.org/errata.html and carrying on from 
> there via the openbsd.org home.

So, you read the "mailing list" page, and the "mini-faq" page, right?  :-)


> however, after having clicked around for probably an hour i decided that i 
> will not find my specific error described anywhere.

But you did read the "mailing list" page, and the "mini-faq" page, right?


> on openbsd.org, i was informed about the existence of the mail address 
> bugs@openbsd.org, and that was about it.

Well, the "mailing list" page said that (and it is a mailing LIST page)
that bug reports should be in the style of sendbug(1), which is a handy
link to the manpage of said program.


> it did not say that bugs@ was a mailing list (which i assume since i got 
> replies from different places and people)
> and IT DID NOT SAY that there is another address, namely misc@openbsd.org.

Funny, a little further down, it happens to say that a misc@ exists?  Of
course, you could have been looking at another page, I hardly did a scan
of the whole site...


> i got some not-so-100%-nice replies which told me to post my no-bug-report 
> elsewhere (which is how i got hold of this address)

When you post about a problem, you should be thinking about the people
that are going to try and solve your problem.  Try to minimize their
time.  Post all the relevant information.  Otherwise you are wasting
peoples time that they would rather use to do something else.

Of course, you did do a search on google, and/or through the mailing list
archives to see if your particular problem was known?  And you did read
the OpenBSD faq, in particular section 2.4...


> please note:
> still i don't really know whether this is the appropriate place to post this.

It is an openbsd mailing list...


> try not to be mad at me if it's not.

Hardly mad, I'm too sick to be mad...


> please, if someone is out there who is connected to how openbsd.org looks and
> is structured, do your homework like i am told to do and include some newbie 
> information (where it will be looked for, that is).

To the best of my knowledge, there is pleanty there.  the difference is that
we do require you to actually read and understand what is there.


> right now i feel pretty alone with my problem and also a little hated by you 
> "real OpenBSD people".
> for sure i am not happy about having BOUGHT the operating system OpenBSD, 
> since i expected at least some basic, reasonable service and functionality.

Huh?!?  You bought a service contract?  Seriously, there are thousands of
happy OpenBSD users.  The software is quite servicable.  As a matter of
fact, we run at least 3 labs full of OpenBSD machines at my work place,
including a good number of non-trivial servers.

Now about service... well, you get what you put into things...


> it is now weeks ago and this, sorry for that but i can't help it:
> and this damn operating system still hates me.

Software (even CS students opinion not withstanding) does not hate you.


> i started with very high spirits and have been very, very disappointed. 
> i haven't even got the installation to START in the first place, for a long 
> time now, and i'm really really sure it's not my fault.

Why not show me what the problem is?  What platform?  What is the error
message?  What happened?  What did you try to remidy the problem?  Where
have you searched to find a fix for the problem?


> if friends asked me about it now, i would definitely have to tell them that 
> OpenBSD is not a good operating system (with political issues off the table 
> of course), which is the reason why i avoid talking to friends about it.

That's a pitty.  But you'll find that the openbsd community will largely
not care about this particular sentiment.  Have a read of:

http://www.holland-consulting.net/tech/OBSDCommProbs.html

The portion that talks about unfriendly OpenBSD lists...


> okay, that's all of my feedback on that topic. i hate giving good people bad 
> news, but there's improvement needed.

In what respect?


> oh, and remember:
> don't take this as a whining protest please, i just feel i ought to tell you 
> what happened to a, whatchacallit, to a potential contributor to your 
> community.

How so?


> i don't expect replies upon this, i just want this to be noted by someone 
> whom it concerns.

It don't really concern me that much.  I just hope that you finally find
the resources that will help you out.  I'm just not sure that such exist...

--Toby.

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