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List: openbeos
Subject: [haiku] Re: meta queries
From: Jerry Babione <jerry.babione () gmail ! com>
Date: 2022-05-25 2:53:23
Message-ID: CADEunr_r7dGz3ApAQ8LVc06mviPgtgnPTXJujk0aA2BOvOZudw () mail ! gmail ! com
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Cool. I rarely comment on this stream. Structure may well force a
rethink. Today's cloud means that most emails and mp3 data are stored
therein. Pointer's built on the BeOS keys from the BeOS Book descriptors
as described could hold those links without impacting storage.
On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 6:24 PM Nigel Malthus <malthi@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> Hi Humdinger
> thank you for your reply.
>
> Where I was coming from was the notion, pushed quite hard by Scott Hacker
> etc, that the BeOS system attributes meant you could lump emails, people,
> and MP3s in folders without any sorting, and leave all the sorting to saved
> queries. I embraced that, and did the same with custom attributes on jpegs.
> But once you have a number of saved queries, then* they* are all by
> default lumped in a folder without any sorting.
>
> So the tl;dr of all this, my eureka moment, was the idea to make queries
> themselves queryable by indexing the trk/qyrstr attribute. No need for
> subfolders!
>
> My system was a bit clunky to set up but it actually worked quite well,
> and I still think there's a germ of an idea there that could give Haiku
> some powerful capabilities. The reason I am sharing it now is that I am
> having a bit of cleanup and found some old notes. Better late than never...
>
>
>
> Nigel.
>
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 at 03:05, Humdinger <dmarc-noreply@freelists.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Nigel Malthus!
>>
>> On Mon, 23 May 2022 11:03:54 +1200 Nigel Malthus wrote:
>> > But custom queries all live together in a single folder by default,
>> which
>> > is not actually user-friendly once you have saved more than a few.
>>
>> Yes, but how could the system know how you want your queries organised? I
>> suppose it could create subfolders in
>> ~/queries for different queried filetypes. But that may not be the system
>> every user wants it sorted.
>> As queries can be saved anywhere by drag and dropping the icon from the
>> Find dialog, everyone is free to organize
>> their queries as they want.
>>
>> > Then I made four custom queries targeted at queries whose own targets
>> were
>> > any file of certain types - ie jpeg, mp3, people, and email. Then,
>> sitting
>> > on the desktop was one master query (I named it 'World') whose targets
>> > were, by name, those four 'type' queries.
>>
>> Sounds interesting :)
>>
>> > However, it wasn't easy to migrate; so as not to lose all those custom
>> jpeg
>> > attributes I exported them to text files in a rough xml format. I never
>> > found an easy way to access or incorporate those into Ubuntu. But then
>> on
>> > the Mac I was able to write scripts to write them back into each jpeg as
>> > Photoshop-format metadata, so they're searchable again.
>>
>> That sounds like still not perfectly interoperable. If you give those
>> files to someone without Mac or Photoshop.
>>
>> > But a big problem is interoperability. You'd have to implement some
>> fairly
>> > complex import/export capabilities to play nicely in a world where
>> everyone
>> > else uses a lot of metadata embedded in files rather than in the
>> > filesystem.
>>
>> There were ideas about an "index_sever" that would index the text of
>> files to enable full-text-queries. And also
>> syncing attributes <-> metadata, e.g. mp3 tags. with exiftool one could
>> do the same for images.
>>
>> But I get that nothing is as flexible as BFS attributes. Maybe, if we
>> wait a couple of decades longer, other OS
>> will use filesystems that allow arbitrary attributes and also actually
>> use them.
>>
>> > So it sure was fun while it lasted and if I ever get another machine
>> that
>> > runs Haiku I'll give it a run.
>>
>> We'll welcome you back any time. Hope you'll then find a way to extract
>> those Photoshop-tags again... :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Humdinger
>>
>> --
>> Help translating 3rd party Haiku applications
>> Go to Polyglot at https://i18n.kacperkasper.pl
>>
>>
--
Jerry Babione
Founder-Just Plain Folks Org. Inc.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Cool. I rarely comment on this stream. Structure may well force a \
rethink. Today's cloud means that most emails and mp3 data are stored therein. \
Pointer's built on the BeOS keys from the BeOS Book descriptors as described \
could hold those links without impacting storage. </div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 6:24 PM \
Nigel Malthus <<a href="mailto:malthi@xtra.co.nz">malthi@xtra.co.nz</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi \
Humdinger<div>thank you for your reply.</div><div><br></div><div>Where I was coming \
from was the notion, pushed quite hard by Scott Hacker etc, that the BeOS system \
attributes meant you could lump emails, people, and MP3s in folders without any \
sorting, and leave all the sorting to saved queries. I embraced that, and did the \
same with custom attributes on jpegs.</div><div>But once you have a number of saved \
queries, then<i> they</i> are all by default lumped in a folder without any \
sorting.</div><div><br></div><div>So the tl;dr of all this, my eureka moment, was the \
idea to make queries themselves queryable by indexing the <span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">trk/qyrstr attribute. No need for \
subfolders!</span></div><div><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">My \
system was a bit clunky to set up but it actually worked quite well, and I still \
think there's a germ of an idea there that could give Haiku some powerful \
capabilities. </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">The reason I am sharing it now \
is that I am having a bit of cleanup and found some old notes. Better late than \
never...</span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div>Nigel.</div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 24 May 2022 at 03:05, Humdinger <<a \
href="mailto:dmarc-noreply@freelists.org" \
target="_blank">dmarc-noreply@freelists.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Nigel Malthus!<br> <br>
On Mon, 23 May 2022 11:03:54 +1200 Nigel Malthus wrote:<br>
> But custom queries all live together in a single folder by default, which<br>
> is not actually user-friendly once you have saved more than a few.<br>
<br>
Yes, but how could the system know how you want your queries organised? I suppose it \
could create subfolders in <br> ~/queries for different queried filetypes. But that \
may not be the system every user wants it sorted.<br> As queries can be saved \
anywhere by drag and dropping the icon from the Find dialog, everyone is free to \
organize <br> their queries as they want.<br>
<br>
> Then I made four custom queries targeted at queries whose own targets were<br>
> any file of certain types - ie jpeg, mp3, people, and email. Then, sitting<br>
> on the desktop was one master query (I named it 'World') whose \
targets<br> > were, by name, those four 'type' queries.<br>
<br>
Sounds interesting :)<br>
<br>
> However, it wasn't easy to migrate; so as not to lose all those custom \
jpeg<br> > attributes I exported them to text files in a rough xml format. I \
never<br> > found an easy way to access or incorporate those into Ubuntu. But then \
on<br> > the Mac I was able to write scripts to write them back into each jpeg \
as<br> > Photoshop-format metadata, so they're searchable again.<br>
<br>
That sounds like still not perfectly interoperable. If you give those files to \
someone without Mac or Photoshop.<br> <br>
> But a big problem is interoperability. You'd have to implement some \
fairly<br> > complex import/export capabilities to play nicely in a world where \
everyone<br> > else uses a lot of metadata embedded in files rather than in \
the<br> > filesystem.<br>
<br>
There were ideas about an "index_sever" that would index the text of files \
to enable full-text-queries. And also <br> syncing attributes <-> metadata, \
e.g. mp3 tags. with exiftool one could do the same for images.<br> <br>
But I get that nothing is as flexible as BFS attributes. Maybe, if we wait a couple \
of decades longer, other OS <br> will use filesystems that allow arbitrary attributes \
and also actually use them.<br> <br>
> So it sure was fun while it lasted and if I ever get another machine that<br>
> runs Haiku I'll give it a run.<br>
<br>
We'll welcome you back any time. Hope you'll then find a way to extract those \
Photoshop-tags again... :)<br> <br>
Regards,<br>
Humdinger<br>
<br>
--<br>
Help translating 3rd party Haiku applications<br>
Go to Polyglot at <a href="https://i18n.kacperkasper.pl" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://i18n.kacperkasper.pl</a><br> <br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature">Jerry Babione<br>Founder-Just Plain Folks Org. Inc.</div>
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