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List: olpc-localization
Subject: Re: [Localization] Installing the Vietnamese Keyboard for the XO
From: Clytie Siddall <clytie () riverland ! net ! au>
Date: 2010-04-16 13:34:49
Message-ID: 3EDDA91B-CD59-4454-BC2F-3830028AFE84 () riverland ! net ! au
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Thanks for your help, Chris. :)
On 16/04/2010, at 2:44 AM, Chris Leonard wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Clytie Siddall <clytie@riverland.net.au> wrote:
> My XO-1 is running Sugar 0.8.21, build 802. I'll ask Nguyệt about hers.
>
> How old is this system? I selected "Vietnamese" in the Language prefs and \
> restarted, but hardly anything is translated.
>
> Build 802 was rolled out in May of 2009.
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/8.2.1
>
> It is distinctly possible that many of your translations were not there at the time \
> the image used on your laptop was flashed.
I did the first complete Sugar translation in February 2009. I suppose it might have \
not got to the XO by May.
> There is however a method for getting more recent versions of the language files \
> using language packs.
> See:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing
>
> For an 8.2 series Sugar, you will find the relevant language pack here:
> http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/langpacks/8.2/
>
> It looks like they were last updated in Feb of 2010, so there may still be some \
> difference between current Pootle PO files and the MO files you'll get from the \
> language pack link above.
> There are also directions for manually going from downloaded PO files to MO files, \
> if there was substantial work done on lang-vi 0.82 files since Feb 2010, that might \
> be necessary, or you could ask Sayamindu to refresh the 8.2 language packs.
OK, thanks. I'll start with the current language packs.
>
> Also, this language pref. does not enable a Vietnamese keyboard layout. I can't \
> access our language in the Write activity. My XO-1 does not have a key to switch \
> between layouts, if that's relevant.
> This really does bring up the need for testing before implementing localizations. \
> :(
>
> Yes, unfortuantely OLPC does not have unlimited resources and so depends a great \
> deal on local deployment partners to help out with many of the specifics of their \
> language requirements. In the case of Vietnamese, there is no "officially \
> OLPC-sponsored" in-country program, just volunteers like you. This is part of the \
> reason that Contributor's Program laptops are made available to volunteers willing \
> to work through the many details involved in a full local-language experience on \
> the XO and pursue or provide fixes for any issues that arise in the testing \
> process. The lessons learned by the early pioneers are captured to smooth the road \
> for those that follow later.
I would suggest making the Localization Testing wiki page:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing
prominent on the SugarLabs Pootle, so we at least have somewhere to start.
>
> > On the OLPC wiki, there are some pages that may be of interest:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts
>
> This doesn't list a Vietnamese layout.
>
> The layouts listed are those for which manufacturing designs for the membranes have \
> been proposed or finalized. That is typically done for languages where a major \
> deployment is planned, thereby justifying the cost of a localized keyboard \
> membrane. There is also a link on that page to the XKB files, which might be the \
> issue that needs investigation.
That page also doesn't include a Vietnamese layout. As I said, some of the necessary \
keys are listed, but what I really need now is to find the current Vietnamese \
keyboard layout.
> >
>
> I'm a little hesitant to set a Vietnamese keyboard layout if there isn't one on the \
> machine. I don't know this machine well enough to mess with its setup on the \
> command line.
> Well if you don't try it, I'm not sure who will.
I don't mean I'm not willing to try things on the command-line. I just don't want to \
mess around there without some guidelines. ;)
> Starting to work a bit with the command line is probably going to be important to \
> do the sorts of things you want in localization testing for Vietnamese. It is just \
> not possible for an XO laptop to be ready for every language in the world fresh \
> out-of-the-box. One of the beauties of the XO laptop is that reflashing from a USB \
> stick is really quick and easy. This page gives a recipe to get back to a basic \
> build 802 install, no matter how badly you've messed around on the command line.
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/No-fail_update
>
> It is not just an update process, it is a complete re-imaging of the machine back \
> to 802 baseline.
Thanks, I may well need that. ;)
>
>
> I was also a bit puzzled by this one-sentence page:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Vietnamese
>
> as Vietnamese hasn't been an ideographic language for nearly 200 years. It's \
> Latin-based. We have a very old ideographic script (Chữ Nôm) which is only used \
> in historic documents.
>
> If there is anything on the OLPC wiki that you think is wrong or confusing, you \
> should change it. It's a wiki and there is probably no one better qualified to \
> make corrections on lang-vi issues than you.
As Serge says, the ideographic language did exist, but it's more of a curiosity now \
than anything else. For those interested, we could link to the Chinese page for Chữ \
Nôm, but the Vietnamese page does need information on our current writing system. \
Once I have the input working, I'll update the page.
from Clytie
Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Thanks for your help, Chris. \
:)<div><br><div><div>On 16/04/2010, at 2:44 AM, Chris Leonard wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">On \
Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Clytie Siddall <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:clytie@riverland.net.au">clytie@riverland.net.au</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div \
style="word-wrap: break-word;">My XO-1 is running Sugar 0.8.21, build 802. I'll ask \
Nguyệt about hers.<div><br></div><div></div><div>How old is this system? I selected \
"Vietnamese" in the Language prefs and restarted, but hardly anything is \
translated.</div> <div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Build 802 was rolled out \
in May of 2009.<br><a \
href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/8.2.1">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/8.2.1</a><br><br>It \
is distinctly possible that many of your translations were not there at the time the \
image used on your laptop was flashed.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I did \
the first complete Sugar translation in February 2009. I suppose it might have not \
got to the XO by May.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div> There is however a method for getting more recent versions \
of the language files using language packs.<br> <br>See:<br><a \
href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing</a><br><br>For \
an 8.2 series Sugar, you will find the relevant language pack here:<br><a \
href="http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/langpacks/8.2/">http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/langpacks/8.2/</a><br>
<br>It looks like they were last updated in Feb of 2010, so there may still be some \
difference between current Pootle PO files and the MO files you'll get from the \
language pack link above.<br><br>There are also directions for manually going from \
downloaded PO files to MO files, if there was substantial work done on lang-vi 0.82 \
files since Feb 2010, that might be necessary, or you could ask Sayamindu to refresh \
the 8.2 language packs.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>OK, thanks. I'll \
start with the current language packs.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: \
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: \
1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div></div><div>Also, this language pref. \
does not enable a Vietnamese keyboard layout. I can't access our language in the \
Write activity. My XO-1 does not have a key to switch between layouts, if that's \
relevant.</div> <div><br></div><div>This really does bring up the need for testing \
before implementing localizations. :(<br><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Yes, \
unfortuantely OLPC does not have unlimited resources and so depends a great deal on \
local deployment partners to help out with many of the specifics of their language \
requirements. In the case of Vietnamese, there is no "officially \
OLPC-sponsored" in-country program, just volunteers like you. This is part of \
the reason that Contributor's Program laptops are made available to volunteers \
willing to work through the many details involved in a full local-language experience \
on the XO and pursue or provide fixes for any issues that arise in the testing \
process. The lessons learned by the early pioneers are captured to smooth the \
road for those that follow later.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I would \
suggest making the Localization Testing wiki page:</div><div><br></div><div><a \
href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing</a></div><div><br></div><div><a \
href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Testing"></a>prominent on the SugarLabs \
Pootle, so we at least have somewhere to start.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); \
padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div><blockquote \
type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; \
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">On the OLPC wiki, there are some pages that \
may be of interest:<br> <br><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts" \
target="_blank">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts</a><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div>This \
doesn't list a Vietnamese layout.<br></div></div> </blockquote><div><br>The layouts \
listed are those for which manufacturing designs for the membranes have been proposed \
or finalized. That is typically done for languages where a major deployment is \
planned, thereby justifying the cost of a localized keyboard membrane. There is \
also a link on that page to the XKB files, which might be the issue that needs \
investigation.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That page also doesn't \
include a Vietnamese layout. As I said, some of the necessary keys are listed, but \
what I really need now is to find the current Vietnamese keyboard \
layout.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; \
margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; \
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: \
auto; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div><blockquote type="cite"><span \
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: medium; \
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: \
normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: \
normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" \
color="#144FAE"><br></font></span></blockquote> <br></div><div>I'm a little hesitant \
to set a Vietnamese keyboard layout if there isn't one on the machine. I don't know \
this machine well enough to mess with its setup on the command \
line.</div></div></blockquote> <div><br>Well if you don't try it, I'm not sure who \
will.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't mean I'm not willing to try \
things on the command-line. I just don't want to mess around there without some \
guidelines. ;)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div>Starting to work a bit with the command line is probably \
going to be important to do the sorts of things you want in localization testing for \
Vietnamese. It is just not possible for an XO laptop to be ready for every \
language in the world fresh out-of-the-box. One of the beauties of the XO \
laptop is that reflashing from a USB stick is really quick and easy. This page \
gives a recipe to get back to a basic build 802 install, no matter how badly you've \
messed around on the command line.<br> <br><a \
href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/No-fail_update">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/No-fail_update</a><br><br>It \
is not just an update process, it is a complete re-imaging of the machine back to 802 \
baseline.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Thanks, I may well need that. \
;)<br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div style="word-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><br></div><div>I was also a bit puzzled by this one-sentence \
page:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Vietnamese" \
target="_blank">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Vietnamese</a></div> <div><br></div><div>as \
Vietnamese hasn't been an ideographic language for nearly 200 years. It's \
Latin-based. We have a very old ideographic script (Chữ Nôm) which is only used in \
historic documents.</div><br></div> </blockquote><div><br>If there is anything on the \
OLPC wiki that you think is wrong or confusing, you should change it. It's a \
wiki and there is probably no one better qualified to make corrections on lang-vi \
issues than you.</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>As Serge says, the \
ideographic language did exist, but it's more of a curiosity now than anything \
else. For those interested, we could link to the Chinese page for Chữ Nôm, but the \
Vietnamese page does need information on our current writing system. Once I have the \
input working, I'll update the page.</div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; \
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span \
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; \
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: \
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: \
normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; \
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: \
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; \
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><p \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal \
Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" \
style="font-family: Helvetica; ">from Clytie </span></font></p><p \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><br \
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></font></p><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: \
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" \
style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; \
"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">Vietnamese Free \
Software Translation Team</span></font></p></div></span></div></span> </div>
<br></div></body></html>
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