[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       olpc-localization
Subject:    Re: [Localization] [FM Discuss] how do you use translate.fm?
From:       Clytie Siddall <clytie () riverland ! net ! au>
Date:       2010-04-08 7:57:10
Message-ID: 34784315-9721-4187-9EF1-A4E113BB19C6 () riverland ! net ! au
[Download RAW message or body]

To: FLOSS Manuals list
Cc: OLPC Localization and Pootle lists (reply to list and I'll copy it here) re. doc. \
translation workflow throughout i18n

Intro: FLOSS Manuals [A] is a collaborative docs interface, which is also used \
unmodified for translation. Booki [B] is the next evolution of this interface, and is \
currently in development. Ideas and feedback are sought, as well as testing and \
bug-reporting.

On 08/04/2010, at 12:46 AM, adam hyde wrote (in conclusion):

> if you have translated material using the translate.flossmanuals.net
> site can you tell us :
> * a little about your process (how you do it) and...
> * your thoughts on the current interface for translations (ie. the split
> window in translate.flossmanuals.net - is it good or are their better
> ways to do it...)

I've been using the split-screen approach. I've found that handy for dragging images \
from the original to the translated version, but as I say further down, that's not \
necessary. Translators don't need a split-screen.

FM is not a bad editing interface, but it's not a translation interface.

Even as an editing interface, I would like to be able to download _the whole manual_ \
and work on it offline. I found it really fussy and slow, inserting images into the \
Mifos manual using the FM server. I couldn't search for the INSERT tags globally: I \
had to open each and every chapter to find them. Each time I needed to insert an \
image, I had to wait for the insert-image window to open (which it always does at \
4cm-square in the top LHS of my screen!). So, to insert an image (I had to do this \
_many_ times):

1. select the insert placeholder
2. click on the Insert Image button
3. manually enlarge the insert-image window
4. wait for it to load (slow!)
5. manually choose the /mifos/ directory (it always defaults to / : surely we could \
have a checkbox pref to say "remember directory") 6. look for the requested image \
(slow and tedious, picking through the images) 7. upload the image if it's not there
8. find it (again) in the icon-view list
9. manually fill in the settings (I had to fill in border-size=1, border-colour=black \
_every time_) 10. insert the image

It would have been much easier and quicker for me to download the whole manual in its \
native format, insert the images manually from the supplied URLs, do any other edits, \
and upload the result (merge, not overwrite). We do this for translation editing all \
the time on Pootle [1], excluding images at this time.

For small, quick changes and editathons or translateathons, a web interface works \
well. For large or multi-chapter changes, offline editing works better. We need:

(a) global search within a manual (options for case-sensitivity and regex)
(b) download whole manual (compressed) for editing
(c) upload whole edited manual (merge): conflicts should show up in the manual \
chapter list (see (g)), and be shown in the interface so they can be resolved (d) do \
we even have upload/download at the chapter level? (e) an image-insert function which \
loads fast, displays a complete window, and has persistent options for filename-list \
(icon list is tedious with many images), remember directory and remember settings (f) \
for tables, a default setting with e.g. "cellpadding=10". The default table has zero \
cellpadding and looks ugly, more difficult to read (g) better status info in the \
chapter list, e.g. columns for images (status: reviewed and statisfactory, no images \
yet, needs review: green OK, red N, yellow R), conflicts (number), placeholders \
(number), review (reviewed, not reviewed or needs review: green OK, red N, yellow R)) \
(h) access restrictions (view, suggest, edit, upload image, upload file) to protect \
work done and quality of work input (i) in html view, syntax highlighting!
(j) the ability to leave comments which are displayed in a separate frame, e.g. \
"Unsure if this is the right image: got it from X" in the original language, or \
"Should I translate A as B or C?" in a translator's language. Comments are distinct \
from placeholders, and can also be used to leave contextual info for the editor or \
translator, e.g. "You need to connect this up with Chapter X" or "'Write' is the name \
of a program: please don't translate it". (k) UTF-8 _everywhere_; good Unicode font \
support on the server [2], including RTL input and display (assuming manuals written \
originally in different languages)

As for a translation interface, please see the info on Pootle [1]. A translation \
interface, whether for docs or program strings, needs (in addition to the above):

(l) translation memory support
	just a file with the key vocab for that manual:
	you translate that first, then if any of this vocab appears in the string (sentence \
or para) you're translating,  part of the interface shows the standard translations \
of that vocab.  On Pootle, you can click on an item in the vocab frame, and it will \
appear at cursor position in your translation.  Download-and-reupload means we can \
use our per-string translation memory offline  (huge time-saver for translators).
(m) string-by-string translation: this means segmenting the chapter into sentences or \
paragraphs;  do away with the split screen, have a single frame with the original \
text and original images  (to be approved or edited by the translator), and have the \
editing field focussed on the string being edited,  so you can still see the whole \
manual page (scrollable) and your translation results as you go (n) per-string \
status: reviewed and confirmed, not yet translated, needs review (Y, N and R as \
above),  which means you can show stats for the translation in the chapter list:
	numbers of Translated, Fuzzy (needs review) and Untranslated strings under T, F and \
N:  the translator hits a button in the string-editing field to change the status of \
a string (o) in addition to (g) above: strings (Translated, Fuzzy, Untranslated: \
number)

In the FM interface, I particularly like the chapter-list-view link "Conventions for \
writing this manual", the global embedded IRC chat and the live tracking of who's \
logged in, who's been active today and who's recently registered (Pootle devs take \
note. ;) )

Booki's development is especially important to FLOSS internationalization, because we \
don't yet have an effective workflow for docs translation. Currently, we use packages \
like po4a [3] and the Translate Toolkit [4] to convert [5] doc files to PO format or \
XLIFF format, then edit them in our current feature-rich program-strings translation \
editors. There are issues with update (how does the translator know which doc strings \
need updating and when?) and project integration. Please see this thread [6] on the \
OLPC Localization list. (It brought me here. :) )

from Clytie 

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team

[1] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/index
Talk to the admins/devs on #pootle on freenode

[2] http://wiki.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fFonts
Dejavu is probably the best pan-Unicode font (GPL)

[3] http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/features.php

[4] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/index

[5] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/nonpo

[6] http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/localization/2010-March/002527.html

[A] http://translate.flossmanuals.net/write

[B] http://www.booki.cc/
_______________________________________________
Localization mailing list
Localization@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization


[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]