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List: odtug-java-l
Subject: Re: Declarative is the new wave?
From: dai clegg <dai.clegg () oracle ! com>
Date: 2003-11-13 15:29:36
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Amin,
I don't know of any reason why they would demur, but as you so rightly
say, you should ask IBM.
Their rep on JSR-88 is Michael Fraenkel - fraenkel@us.ibm.com.
The JSR's website is here: http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=88
dai
Amin Adatia wrote:
> What are the chances of WebSphere also moving towards JSR88?
>
>
>
> I know I need to ask IBM but .... what have you heard?
>
>
>
> THE BC4J Bug is gone -- at least for the simple one-level Master-Detail.
>
>
> Regards
> Amin Adatia (amin@knowtech.ca <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca> )
> KnowTech Solutions Inc (www.knowtech.ca <http://www.knowtech.ca> )
> (613) 226-8378 Fax (613) 226-7004 Mobile (613) 864-8378
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: dai clegg <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-JAVA-L
> <mailto:ODTUG-JAVA-L@fatcity.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 09:04
>
> Subject: Re: Declarative is the new wave?
>
>
> Amin,
>
> ==moving across to the JAVA list==
>
> We wanted a Java design-time platform for our J2EE development
> environment - Designer is still tied to Windows in a world where
> Java is
> leading the resurgence of other platforms.
> We wanted a single stack for visual modeling, declarative
> development
> and coding - the old Designer/Forms separate stacks issue has
> caused us
> and our customers so much aggravation over the years.
> Building it up from the Java IDE makes sense i think, given that
> perspective.
>
>
>
> The bug in the BC4J Generator is fixed in the10g preview on OTN.
>
> We only have specific deployment for OC4J, JBoss & WebLogic in 9.0.5.
> In the following release we plan to support J2EE 1.4 standard
> deployment (JSR 88)
> Assuming that WebShpere supports JSR88, we will have simple
> deployment
> than.
>
>
> dai
>
>
>
> Amin Adatia wrote:
>
> > Dai,
> >
> >
> >
> > Since I do not write the kind of code used by the Designer
> Generators
> > or even JDev Generators, how much of a penalty would there have
> been
> > if Oracle had started out from the Designer world of declarative
> > design while still working on the Java toolkit you needed to
> have for
> > J2EE? Because, the problems I have run into with the BC4J
> Generator of
> > sorts from Designer to JDev, is that even the basic where clause
> has
> > syntax errors: Column_Names with underscores are magically
> converted
> > into single words with no underscores. (Yes, I have reported the
> > problem and the solution is that it was a first release of the
> product).
> >
> >
> >
> > 10g is a lot better -- but not many will commit to it until it is
> > production and even then will wait for the first few patch sets. By
> > the way, will there be the one-button deployment to WebSphere
> included
> > in the production version of 10g from the start or will it be a
> future
> > feature.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Amin Adatia (amin@knowtech.ca <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca>
> <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca > )
> > KnowTech Solutions Inc (www.knowtech.ca <http://www.knowtech.ca>
> <http://www.knowtech.ca > )
> > (613) 226-8378 Fax (613) 226-7004 Mobile (613) 864-8378
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: dai clegg <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com >
> >
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-DES2K-L
> > <mailto:ODTUG-DES2K-L@fatcity.com >
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 08:57
> >
> > Subject: Re: Declarative is the new wave?
> >
> >
> > Amin,
> >
> > Amin Adatia wrote:
> >
> > > But it need not have taken all of, is it 3 years now?, for
> even
> > Oracle
> > > to figure out that declarative approach was the better choice.
> > After
> > > all Oracle had supposedly learned through the way of
> Designer. I
> > guess
> > > presence in the market sometimes makes one forget the real
> way of
> > > doing things.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > We've been convinced for a long time that Java and specifically
> > J2EE is
> > the strategic platform going forward and to enter that market we
> > first
> > had to mature and deliver the kinds of tools that are
> necessary as a
> > baseline in the Java world - and that is a powerful IDE & coding
> > tools.
> > With 9.0.3 of JDeveloper (current production) we moved into the
> > top 3
> > Java IDEs. With our current cycle we've moved the focus
> more firmly
> > onto adding visual and declarative tools on top of the Java
> > language. We
> > started on that a number of years ago, with BC4J, but with10g
> > we've made
> > a big leap forward.
> > The job's not done yet, but i hope if they take the time to look
> > at it,
> > that no-one will be in doubt that we mean it!
> >
> > > When is all this 10g stuff supposed to be out? and not on
> the very
> > > expensive platforms <s>.I am not about to replace
> everything to
> > > Solaris or Linux.
> > >
> > 10g JDeveloper Preview is on OTN here:
> >
> > http://otn.oracle.com/software/products/jdev/index.html
> >
> > production target is very early next calendar on Windows,
> amongst
> > other
> > popular platforms <s>.
> >
> > dai
> >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Amin Adatia (amin@knowtech.ca <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca>
> <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca >
> > <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca > )
> > > KnowTech Solutions Inc (www.knowtech.ca
> <http://www.knowtech.ca> <http://www.knowtech.ca >
> > <http://www.knowtech.ca > )
> > > (613) 226-8378 Fax (613) 226-7004 Mobile (613) 864-8378
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > clegg <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com >
> > >
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-DES2K-L
> > > <mailto:ODTUG-DES2K-L@fatcity.com >
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 04:54
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Declarative is the new wave?
> > >
> > >
> > > Min,
> > >
> > > According to Oracle... :-)
> > >
> > > (a paper at Oracleworld last September)
> > >
> > >
> > > Visual and Declarative J2EE Development with Oracle
> > JDeveloper 10g
> > > and
> > > Oracle ADF: An Overview (Moscone Room 133)
> > > Speaker 1: Ted Farrell, Senior Technology Director &
> > Architect
> > > (Oracle Corporation)
> > > Abstract: Over the last five years, J2EE has proven
> > itself as a
> > > robust and scalable platform for delivering business
> > applications.
> > > Although the benefits of standards and portability are
> > clear, the
> > > limited productivity of J2EE development projects and the
> > lack of
> > > Rapid
> > > Application Development tools for J2EE has been
> slowing down the
> > > adoption of Java. Recognizing this situation, Oracle has
> > unveiled
> > > a new
> > > approach to J2EE development in the upcoming Oracle
> JDeveloper
> > > 10g. The
> > > new release makes the creation of J2EE applications
> less about
> > > writing
> > > 3GL Java code and more about solving business problems by
> > using a
> > > visual
> > > and declarative environment. This presentation takes you
> > through the
> > > latest developments that are turning this vision into a
> > reality and
> > > shows you how Oracle is addressing emerging standards
> in this
> > > maturing
> > > field.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331
> <http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331>
>
> > <
> http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331
> <http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331>
>
> >
> >
> > > <
> >
> http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331
> <http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331>
>
> > <
> http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331
> <http://www.oracleworld2003.com/scps/download/download.jsp?53455353494F4E5F4944=3430323331&414242524556494154494F4E=3430323331>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We've understood the necessity to bring declarative/visual
> > > application
> > > development to J2EE for a long time now.
> > > The JDeveloper 10g preview shows how far we've come -
> learning
> > > lessons
> > > and applying principles from Designer on the way.
> > >
> > > dai
> > >
> > >
> > > Amin Adatia wrote:
> > >
> > > > According to Microsoft
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > In addition, Allchin said Microsoft is pushing a new
> > declarative
> > > > language for Avalon known as XAML, a declarative markup
> > language in
> > > > Longhorn. "XAML says, 'Let's do things in a declarative
> > way,' "
> > > > Allchin said. "With XAML, you're able to separate
> the coding
> > > from the
> > > > context." <<
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wonder if JDev will suddenly find/discover Designer
> and rename
> > > it JDes
> > > > ?or XDes perhaps?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Amin Adatia ( amin@knowtech.ca
> <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca> <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca >
> > <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca >
> > > <mailto:amin@knowtech.ca > )
> > > > KnowTech Solutions Inc ( www.knowtech.ca
> <http://www.knowtech.ca>
> > <http://www.knowtech.ca > <http://www.knowtech.ca >
> > > <http://www.knowtech.ca > )
> > > > (613) 226-8378 Fax (613) 226-7004 Mobile (613)
> 864-8378
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success!
> > See you
> > > in 2004!
> > > If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit
> > http://www.odtug.com
> > > --
> > > Author: dai clegg
> > > INET: dai.clegg@oracle.com
> <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com> <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com >
> > <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com >
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> > http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web
> hosting
> > services
> > >
> >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success!
> See you
> > in 2004!
> > If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit
> http://www.odtug.com
> > --
> > Author: dai clegg
> > INET: dai.clegg@oracle.com <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com>
> <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com >
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> >
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>
>
> --
> Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you
> in 2004!
> If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com
> --
> Author: dai clegg
> INET: dai.clegg@oracle.com <mailto:dai.clegg@oracle.com>
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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--
Thanks to everyone for making ODTUG 2003 a great success! See you in 2004!
If you want to volunteer for a committee, visit http://www.odtug.com
--
Author: dai clegg
INET: dai.clegg@oracle.com
Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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