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List: nsbasic-palm
Subject: Re: [nsbasic-palm] More PDB converter questions
From: Michael Verive <mverive () yahoo ! com>
Date: 2005-09-27 2:14:00
Message-ID: 20050927021400.1349.qmail () web80602 ! mail ! yahoo ! com
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Paul,
The Webster dictionary most certainly doesn't use a single record for each word, but \
most likely uses a strategy that minimizes the record count, and compresses text.
Database programming for the Palm OS can be a simple task, or it can be quite \
formidable, depending on what you need to do. Most of my database applications are \
fairly simple, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
What you're attempting to do requires considerable compromise. The simplest \
programming strategy is not the most efficient, so you need to think about how you \
could minimize record count and memory requirements yet still deliver good \
performance and be enjoyable for the end-user. Plus, program maintenance needs to be \
taken into account. Document everything well, and think of multiple ways to \
accomplish each task. Create quick prototypes, and enlist the help of friends, \
colleagues, and potential end-users to give you direction on the look-and-feel of the \
application. Programmers sometiimes forget that what is obvious to them may not be \
clear at all for the end user, so spend time up-front determining what your users \
want and need.
If's usually easier to design than to redesign!
Mike Verive
mverive@yahoo.com
Paul Dennis <chemist100_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mike how can there be a dictionary for palm os called webster that contains 127000 \
words and is able to run on the palm os. Is this a limitation of Nsbasic? I am \
thinking that I would break up the database in small amounts and load each database \
in its own grid on diffrent forms what do you think?
Michael Verive <mverive@yahoo.com> wrote: 90,000 records is a huge number of records, \
and probably would *never* get transferred by HotSync. You might want to consider \
how your database is structured to get the record count down to a much more \
reasonable number. I'm not sure that the Palm OS even allows that many records in a \
single database.
Doug Handy's DocLib has compression methods based on the DOC-style compression \
algorithm. You can achieve a reasonable degree of compression using his library, \
which I believe is now included with NSBasic (but I may be wrong). I'd use his \
routines to start with, but I'd also wait until I changed the database structure if \
you're going to try to decrease the record count.
Just to give you an idea of how much memory you're talking about, if the average \
length of each record is 100 bytes, 90,000 records would take roughly 9 MB \
uncompressed. This might not be a significant factor if you're storing the database \
on an expansion card, but it would be a huge chunk of RAM if you're trying to store \
the database in main memory.
Take a hard look at what you're trying to accomplish, what the target devices are, \
and whether or not you need to change your database structure before you go much \
further.
Mike Verive
mverive@yahoo.com
Paul Dennis <chemist100_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mike could you tell me how to compress the data my goal is to have about 90,000 \
records on completion. thanks
Michael Verive <mverive@yahoo.com> wrote: Paul,
You're probably bumping into the memory limit. Check your free memory, get rid of \
non-essentials, and so on. You've got a huge nuber of records, which can make \
HotSync slow down to a horrible crawl, and possibly even stall. If possible, try \
breaking the database into 2 or more databases with fewer records each. You may \
even need to consider using compression on the data if you can't reduce memory \
consumption in other ways.
MIke Verive
mverive@yahoo.com
Paul Dennis <chemist100_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Mike pdb converter lite works very well but I have ran into a snag, After \
loading 10686 data in the converter and installed it the pda crashes, This does not \
occur when the data is like 8000 or less
Michael Verive <mverive@yahoo.com> wrote: One more note - I am ramping up efforts at \
creating a Pro version of PDB Converter, so 4.1.6 will be the last freeware version \
of PDB Converter, and 1.1 will be the last freeware version of PDB Converter Lite \
(after > 60,000 downloads I'm ready to start getting paid for my efforts).
PDB Converter Pro will allow support for strings > 255 bytes, will allow in-cell \
editing, and will continue to support Excel, HanDBase, and HTML tables/web pages (not \
supported by PDB Converter Lite). PDB Converter Pro will also have a byte-level \
editor for direct manipulation of pdb's.
Mike Verive
mverive@yahoo.com
Michael Verive <mverive@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim,
> 1. Am I permitted to distribute your pdb converter
> with my application?
Yes, as long as it is included in unmodified form.
You don't need to include the sample projects that
come with PDB Converter, however, as they're included
to assist NSBasic programmers with examples of using
string PDB's.
> 2. Tech Note 02 says: "Read, write, and convert
> between CSV and PDB's
> containing only string data. Uses Palm DB.DLL and
> the Microsoft
> Hierarchical Flex Grid control, and components of
> the Palm Conduit SDK
> (not included - must already be installed on your
> system). By Michael
> Verive " Does installation of the Palm Desktop
> software by a user
> constitute installing the SDK you mentioned? Is any
> other software
> needed?
If the user has already installed the Palm Conduit
Development Kit, then all of the necessary components
will be available.
> 3. I noticed another utility for csv2pdb in Tech
> Note 02. Would this
> work on pdb's created with NSB?
I haven't used the csv2pdb and pdb2csv routines in the
utility you mention, but they are intended to convert
between JFile PDB's and CSV.
> 4. Please provide a link to download your "Lite"
> version?
www.mverive.com/pdbcvtlite.zip
> 5. I downloaded your version, 4.1.6. Does this one
> have the
> flexible "delimiter" feature?
That's correct. There's still no command-line option
for user-defined delimiters, but it's on my "to-do"
list.
Mike Verive
mverive@yahoo.com
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[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><body>
<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Webster dictionary most certainly doesn't use a single record for each word, \
but most likely uses a strategy that minimizes the record count, and compresses \
text.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Database programming for the Palm OS can be a simple task, or it can be quite \
formidable, depending on what you need to do. Most of my database applications \
are fairly simple, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What you're attempting to do requires considerable compromise. The \
simplest programming strategy is not the most efficient, so you need to think about \
how you could minimize record count and memory requirements yet still deliver good \
performance and be enjoyable for the end-user. Plus, program maintenance needs \
to be taken into account. Document everything well, and think of multiple ways \
to accomplish each task. Create quick prototypes, and enlist the help of \
friends, colleagues, and potential end-users to give you direction on the \
look-and-feel of the application. Programmers sometiimes forget that what is \
obvious to them may not be clear at all for the end user, so spend time up-front \
determining what your users want and need. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If's usually easier to design than to redesign!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mike Verive</DIV>
<DIV>mverive@yahoo.com<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Dennis \
<chemist100_99@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> \
<DIV>Mike how can there be a dictionary for palm os called webster that contains \
127000 words and is able to run on the palm os. Is this a limitation of Nsbasic? I am \
thinking that I would break up the database in small amounts and load each database \
in its own grid on diffrent forms what do you think?<BR><BR><B><I>Michael Verive \
<mverive@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> \
<DIV>90,000 records is a huge number of records, and probably would *never* get \
transferred by HotSync. You might want to consider how your database is \
structured to get the record count down to a much more reasonable number. I'm \
not sure that the Palm OS even allows that many records in a single database.</DIV> \
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doug Handy's DocLib has compression methods based on the \
DOC-style compression algorithm. You can achieve a reasonable degree of \
compression using his library, which I believe is now included with NSBasic (but I \
may be wrong). I'd use his routines to start with, but I'd also wait until I \
changed the database structure if you're going to try to decrease the record \
count.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just to give you an idea of how much memory you're talking about, if the average \
length of each record is 100 bytes, 90,000 records would take roughly 9 MB \
uncompressed. This might not be a significant factor if you're storing the \
database on an expansion card, but it would be a huge chunk of RAM if you're \
trying to store the database in main memory.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Take a hard look at what you're trying to accomplish, what the target devices \
are, and whether or not you need to change your database structure before you go much \
further. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mike Verive</DIV>
<DIV>mverive@yahoo.com<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Dennis \
<chemist100_99@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> \
<DIV>Mike could you tell me how to compress the data my goal is to have about \
90,000 records on completion. thanks<BR><BR><B><I>Michael Verive \
<mverive@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> \
<DIV>Paul,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You're probably bumping into the memory limit. Check your free memory, get \
rid of non-essentials, and so on. You've got a huge nuber of records, which can \
make HotSync slow down to a horrible crawl, and possibly even stall. If \
possible, try breaking the database into 2 or more databases with fewer records \
each. You may even need to consider using compression on the data if you \
can't reduce memory consumption in other ways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MIke Verive</DIV>
<DIV>mverive@yahoo.com<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Dennis \
<chemist100_99@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> \
<DIV>Hello Mike pdb converter lite works very well but I have ran into a snag, After \
loading 10686 data in the converter and installed it the pda crashes, This does not \
occur when the data is like 8000 or less<BR><BR><B><I>Michael Verive \
<mverive@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV>One \
more note - I am ramping up efforts at creating a Pro version of PDB Converter, so \
4.1.6 will be the last freeware version of PDB Converter, and 1.1 will be the last \
freeware version of PDB Converter Lite (after > 60,000 downloads I'm ready to \
start getting paid for my efforts).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PDB Converter Pro will allow support for strings > 255 bytes, will allow \
in-cell editing, and will continue to support Excel, HanDBase, and HTML \
tables/web pages (not supported by PDB Converter Lite). PDB Converter Pro \
will also have a byte-level editor for direct manipulation of pdb's.</DIV> \
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mike Verive</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:mverive@yahoo.com">mverive@yahoo.com</A><BR><BR><B><I>Michael \
Verive <mverive@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq \
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px \
solid">Jim,<BR><BR><BR>> 1. Am I permitted to distribute your pdb \
converter<BR>> with my application?<BR><BR>Yes, as long as it is included in \
unmodified form. <BR>You don't need to include the sample projects that<BR>come with \
PDB Converter, however, as they're included<BR>to assist NSBasic programmers with \
examples of using<BR>string PDB's.<BR><BR>> 2. Tech Note 02 says: "Read, write, \
and convert<BR>> between CSV and PDB's <BR>> containing only string data. Uses \
Palm DB.DLL and<BR>> the Microsoft <BR>> Hierarchical Flex Grid control, and \
components of<BR>> the Palm Conduit SDK <BR>> (not included - must already be \
installed on your<BR>> system). By Michael <BR>> Verive " Does installation of \
the Palm Desktop<BR>> software by a user <BR>> constitute installing the SDK \
you mentioned? Is any<BR>> other software <BR>> needed?<BR><BR>If the user has \
already installed the Palm Conduit<BR>Development Kit, then all of the necessary \
components<BR>will be available.<BR><BR>> 3. I noticed another utility for csv2pdb \
in Tech<BR>> Note 02. Would this <BR>> work on pdb's created with NSB?<BR><BR>I \
haven't used the csv2pdb and pdb2csv routines in the<BR>utility you mention, but they \
are intended to convert<BR>between JFile PDB's and CSV.<BR><BR>> 4. Please provide \
a link to download your "Lite"<BR>> \
version?<BR><BR>www.mverive.com/pdbcvtlite.zip<BR><BR>> 5. I downloaded your \
version, 4.1.6. Does this one<BR>> have the <BR>> flexible "delimiter" \
feature?<BR><BR>That's correct. There's still no command-line option<BR>for \
user-defined delimiters, but it's on my "to-do"<BR>list.<BR><BR>Mike \
Verive<BR>mverive@yahoo.com<BR><BR><BR><BR>Complete Searchable \
Archive:<BR>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=nsbasic-palm&r=1&w=2<BR><BR>Shortcut \
URL to this page:<BR>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsbasic-palm <BR>Yahoo! Groups \
Links<BR><BR><*> To visit your group on the web, go \
to:<BR>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsbasic-palm/<BR><BR><*> To unsubscribe \
from this group, send an email \
to:<BR>nsbasic-palm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR><*> Your use of Yahoo! \
Groups is subject to:<BR>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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