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List: ngw
Subject: Re: [ngw] Novell - GroupWise future
From: Janyne Kizer <janyne_kizer () ncsu ! edu>
Date: 2009-07-07 18:34:38
Message-ID: 4A53953E.5020702 () ncsu ! edu
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Which proves the point that it's not a native client.
James Taylor wrote:
> when the explat client was first released, it would run on windows.
> -jt
>
> James Taylor
> The East Cobb Group, Inc.
> 678-697-9420
> james.taylor@eastcobbgroup.com
> http://www.eastcobbgroup.com
>
>
> > > > "Patrick Farrell" <pfarrell@packereng.com> 07/07/09 13:35 PM >>>
> Well if it's Java, then I could run it on Windows as well :) How many people \
> would prefer to run that client on Windows vs the native Windows client?
> > > > Janyne Kizer <janyne_kizer@ncsu.edu> 7/7/2009 12:22 PM >>>
> java =! native code
>
> It runs in a virtual machine.
>
> Joseph Marton wrote:
> > Except that Novell DOES have a native Linux client.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Patrick Farrell <pfarrell@packereng.com
> > <mailto:pfarrell@packereng.com>> wrote:
> >
> > True but not relevant.
> >
> > Lets put it this way.
> >
> > Novell not having a native linux GroupWise client is equivalent to
> > Microsoft not having a native Windows Outlook client.
> >
> > > > > Joseph Marton <jmmarton@gmail.com <mailto:jmmarton@gmail.com>>
> > 7/7/2009 10:23 AM >>>
> > Last time I checked, Microsoft was begrudgingly acknowledging that
> > enterprises do, in fact, run operating systems other than Windows.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Patrick Farrell
> > <pfarrell@packereng.com <mailto:pfarrell@packereng.com>>wrote:
> >
> > > Last time I checked, Microsoft wasn't betting their entire
> > company on Linux
> > > as an Operating system, so they are not under such a burden as
> > Novell is.
> > >
> > > > > > Joseph Marton <jmmarton@gmail.com
> > <mailto:jmmarton@gmail.com>> 7/7/2009 9:20 AM >>>
> > > It's possible the client is horrible on the Mac. I don't have a
> > Mac so I
> > > can't speak for that. But on Linux the xplat client is
> > definitely far from
> > > horrible. Speaking of Linux, what native Linux client is there for
> > > Exchange? Hmm.....
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Matt Weisberg <matt@weisberg.net
> > <mailto:matt@weisberg.net>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I will STRONGLY echo James comments here. As a Mac user, I
> > loathe the
> > > > client. That's why I've been experimenting with just using the
> > Apple
> > > Mail
> > > > client via IMAP (although, it has its warts too and tradeoffs using
> > > > GroupWise as a back-end IMAP service). Even Microsoft builds a
> > native
> > > > Exchange client for the Mac (Entourage, which while isn't great, is
> > > better
> > > > than GroupWise on a Mac).
> > > >
> > > > I have a Vista machine too and I switch been them. So it
> > becomes even
> > > more
> > > > painful to see the differences.
> > > >
> > > > I would think that it would make sense to embrace the non-typical
> > > platforms
> > > > and support them strongly to at least become a leader there.
> > Competing
> > > with
> > > > Outlook on the Windows desktop, lets face it, is difficult.
> > I'd rather
> > > see
> > > > Novell make GroupWise work strongly as a back-end for other
> > mail clients
> > > or
> > > > build a real client for the Mac and Linux. I know that will never
> > > happen,
> > > > but I can dream, can't I? :) I love my GroupWise back-end,
> > give me a
> > > > front-end to match!
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > Matt Weisberg
> > > > Weisberg Consulting, Inc.
> > > > matt@weisberg.net <mailto:matt@weisberg.net>
> > > > www.weisberg.net <http://www.weisberg.net>
> > > > ofc. 248.685.1970
> > > > cell 248.705.1950
> > > > fax 248.769.5963
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > On 7/7/2009 at 9:26 AM, in message
> > > > <4A5314CA0200007500052B4C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com
> > <mailto:4A5314CA0200007500052B4C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>>, "James
> > Taylor"
> > > > <James.Taylor@eastcobbgroup.com
> > <mailto:James.Taylor@eastcobbgroup.com>> wrote:
> > > > > The non-linux clients are truly "not-good". They have become
> > less
> > > > "not-good" as
> > > > > they have been further developed, but for anyone who uses
> > them for
> > > their
> > > > > primary mail client, they are marginally acceptable.
> > > > >
> > > > > They will remain that way as long as Novell insists on basing the
> > > client
> > > > on
> > > > > java and trying to make one client for Mac and Linux.
> > > > >
> > > > > The client is truly horrible compared to almost any software
> > for the
> > > Mac,
> > > > > and it only supports one linux distribution and integrates
> > poorly, if
> > > at
> > > > all,
> > > > > with the linux desktop platform that it does support.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't plan to move or advocate moving off of GoupWise, but,
> > other
> > > than
> > > > the
> > > > > fact that it exists at all, the xplat client is not a bright
> > spot for
> > > > > GroupWise.
> > > > >
> > > > > -jt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > James Taylor
> > > > > The East Cobb Group, Inc.
> > > > > 678-697-9420
> > > > > james.taylor@eastcobbgroup.com
> > <mailto:james.taylor@eastcobbgroup.com>
> > > > > http://www.eastcobbgroup.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joseph Marton <jmmarton@gmail.com
> > <mailto:jmmarton@gmail.com>> 7/7/2009 09:06 AM >>>
> > > > > So if an application has less than 5% market share it
> > automatically is
> > > > > "losing" market share to its Microsoft counterpart? Interesting,
> > > > especially
> > > > > when some numbers show upticks in GW market share. In fact,
> > if you'll
> > > > read
> > > > > through the Novell support forums, you'll see plenty of
> > questions in
> > > > regards
> > > > > to people migrating TO GroupWise. I'm sure Gartner doesn't
> > track every
> > > > > single 5- and 10-user shop but collectively all those
> > mailboxes add up.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm also curious about this "lack of support" for non-Windows
> > users.
> > > > Novell
> > > > > has made great strides in improving the xplat client with
> > GW8. Sure,
> > > it
> > > > > doesn't have 100% of the features of the GW8 win32 client but
> > then
> > > again
> > > > the
> > > > > win32 client has what, a 15-year head start?
> > > > >
> > > > > And you speak of Internet standards, yet these are the same
> > standards
> > > > that
> > > > > Microsoft breaks all the time. I presume it's ok for them, then?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Janyne Kizer
> > <janyne_kizer@ncsu.edu <mailto:janyne_kizer@ncsu.edu>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > From what I read, Gartner never said that GroupWise is a bad
> > product,
> > > > just
> > > > > > that it did not have a lot of market share and that the
> > software as a
> > > > > > service trend, along with Exchange, is further eroding the
> > share of
> > > the
> > > > > > market they do have.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Based on seat count, Novell's e-mail system, GroupWise, has
> > less than
> > > > 5%
> > > > > > of the overall e-mail market, and that share is being slowly
> > eroded by
> > > > > > Microsoft Exchange." - Gartner's MarketScope for E-Mail
> > Systems (15
> > > May
> > > > > > 2009)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Companies are reassessing their e-mail vendor commitments.
> > The most
> > > > > > pronounced trend we see is Novell Groupwise and IBM
> > Notes/Domino shops
> > > > > > moving to Microsoft Exchange. But we also see substantial
> > interest in
> > > > > > Google's commercial e-mail service, and we anticipate that many
> > > > > > organizations will take a close look at the hosted service
> > Cisco will
> > > > > > introduce around the middle of the year." Gartner's Key
> > Issues for
> > > > E-Mail,
> > > > > > 2009 (30 January 2009)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of the problems that I see in my organization are:
> > > > > > - lack of support for non-Windows users (the java client is
> > not good
> > > and
> > > > > > frankly Linux and Mac users should not be step children,
> > they should
> > > be
> > > > > > offered comparable clients.)
> > > > > > - lack of support of internet standards (yes, GW has IMAP
> > but silent
> > > > data
> > > > > > loss with regards to the Calendar and Sent Items folder is not
> > > > acceptable in
> > > > > > an enterprise system)
> > > > > > - lack of support of collaborative tools such as CalDAV
> > (promised in
> > > GW8
> > > > > > but where is it?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thys de Beer wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe the GW team did'nt sponser gartner for a
> > party....that is why
> > > > "it's
> > > > > > > getting dropped"....(evil i know)!!! ;-) ... the better the
> > sponser
> > > the
> > > > > > > better the product it seems these days...but that is just
> > my opinion,
> > > > might
> > > > > > > be totally wrong..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thys de Beer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:54 PM, in message <
> > > > > > > 4A521E28.F781.00FC.0@calvin.edu
> > <mailto:4A521E28.F781.00FC.0@calvin.edu>>, "Mary Matthews"
> > <mlm23@calvin.edu <mailto:mlm23@calvin.edu>>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not, but then it's me after all. :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Adam <aha2001@yahoo.com <mailto:aha2001@yahoo.com>>
> > 7/2/2009 9:53 AM >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As I am getting prepared to move from GroupWise 7 to 8, our IT
> > > director
> > > > > > > (who reports to CEO) tells me the following: "Adam, as you
> > know we
> > > are
> > > > > > > member of the Gartner Group and belief there is that Novell
> > will be
> > > > ditching
> > > > > > > GroupWise by 2012."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do other people have the same concern regarding GroupWise?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess this means my job might be secure for couple of
> > more years
> > > (or
> > > > > > > not).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Adam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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