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List: nanog
Subject: Re: Operational need for IP address space (Re: An update on the AfriNIC situation)
From: Owen DeLong via NANOG <nanog () nanog ! org>
Date: 2021-08-31 19:25:27
Message-ID: 6CEC08FE-B8D0-47BB-8CED-3D124185CEE5 () delong ! com
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> On Aug 31, 2021, at 12:17 , John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
>
> On 31 Aug 2021, at 2:23 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>> \
> wrote:
> >
> > > Do we have parties who postulate their operational need based on entirely \
> > > internal services, or services that live within virtual devices in a data \
> > > center? Sure… and some of these are indeed legitimate and fulfilled per \
> > > policy. We also have folks who get creative and make similar requests for \
> > > purposes of obtaining address blocks from ARIN – absent any bona fide \
> > > networking need –for subsequent monetization and these reviewed, revoked, and \
> > > can be referred to criminal fraud proceedings.
> >
> > Yes, but in the ARIN region, you have also made it very clear that if needs \
> > change, ARIN will not attempt to revoke or reclaim space based on that change in \
> > need.
>
> Owen -
>
> ARIN has full authority to revoke number resources based on breach of our \
> Registration Services Agreement (RSA) by a customer. We do exercise that authority \
> with significant caution, but will do so when the situation warrants – and I \
> would expect any other RIR to do the same in enforcing the particular terms of \
> their own RSA agreement.
Agreed. Nonetheless, you have repeatedly stood in front of the community and stated \
that if the only violation of ARIN policy is insufficient utilization, ARIN will not \
take action against the organization to revoke or reclaim the resources.
> As I understand it, AFRINIC has initiated a rather small number of resource reviews \
> after completion of its most recent database audit – one might argue that they \
> should have initiated more/fewer/none-at-all, but one cannot logically assert that \
> AFRINIC lacks the right to enforce the plain language of their RSA agreement when a \
> review indicates that a breach of that agreement has occurred.
Depending on your definition of rather small. I hear it's ≥ 1% of all resource \
holders so far and climbing.
> You also may not like that the AFRINIC RSA has recipients acknowledging that they \
> are 'bestowed with an exclusive right of use of those number resources within the \
> ambit of the "need" which it has justified in its application and for no other \
> purpose during the currency of the present agreement', but please recognize that \
> "your client" apparently liked that provision well enough to agree to it in order \
> to receive the address blocks – so there's really not much more to be said in \
> this regard.
Please also note that there is a provision further down in the agreement for dealing \
with modifications as they come up.
Whether my client did or did not comply with that provision is a matter for the \
courts at this point and I can't comment on the exact nature of that particular issue \
as a result. However, I think there is adequate public information available to show \
that there is at least some legitimate dispute as to the facts of whether my client \
is is or is not in compliance with the RSA. I look forward to the courts decision on \
the matter as once that comes, I will be able to talk more freely regardless of the \
outcome.
Owen
[Attachment #3 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 31, 2021, at 12:17 , John Curran <<a \
href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" class="">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: \
after-white-space;" class=""> On 31 Aug 2021, at 2:23 PM, Owen DeLong <<a \
href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""> \
<div class=""> <blockquote type="cite" class=""><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Do we have parties who postulate their operational \
need based on entirely internal services, or services that live within virtual \
devices in a data center? Sure… and some of these are indeed \
legitimate and fulfilled per policy. We also have folks who get creative and \
make similar requests for purposes of obtaining address blocks from ARIN – absent \
any bona fide networking need –for subsequent monetization and these reviewed, \
revoked, and can be referred to criminal fraud proceedings. <br \
class=""> </blockquote>
<br class="">
Yes, but in the ARIN region, you have also made it very clear that if needs change, \
ARIN will not attempt to revoke or reclaim space based on that change in need.<br \
class=""> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Owen - </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">ARIN has full authority to revoke number resources based on breach of \
our Registration Services Agreement (RSA) by a customer. We do exercise that \
authority with significant caution, but will do so when the situation warrants – \
and I would expect any other RIR to do the same in enforcing the particular terms of \
their own RSA agreement. </div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br \
class=""></div>Agreed. Nonetheless, you have repeatedly stood in front of the \
community and stated that if the only violation of ARIN policy is insufficient \
utilization, ARIN will not take action against the organization to revoke or reclaim \
the resources.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" \
class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class=""> <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; \
border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">As I understand it, AFRINIC has initiated a \
rather small number of resource reviews after completion of its most recent database \
audit – one might argue that they should have initiated more/fewer/none-at-all, \
but one cannot logically assert that AFRINIC lacks the right to enforce the plain \
language of their RSA agreement when a review indicates that a breach of that \
agreement has occurred. </blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br \
class=""></div>Depending on your definition of rather small. I hear it's ≥ 1% of \
all resource holders so far and climbing.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; \
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">You also \
may not like that the AFRINIC RSA has recipients acknowledging that they are <i \
class="">'<b class="">bestowed with an exclusive right of use of those number \
resources within the ambit of the "need" which it has justified in its \
application and for no other purpose during the currency of the present \
agreement</b>', </i>but please recognize that "your client" apparently liked \
that provision well enough to agree to it in order to receive the address blocks – \
so there's really not much more to be said in this \
regard. </blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Please \
also note that there is a provision further down in the agreement for dealing with \
modifications as they come up.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Whether my client \
did or did not comply with that provision is a matter for the courts at this point \
and I can't comment on the exact nature of that particular issue as a result. \
However, I think there is adequate public information available to show that there is \
at least some legitimate dispute as to the facts of whether my client is is or is not \
in compliance with the RSA. I look forward to the courts decision on the matter as \
once that comes, I will be able to talk more freely regardless of the \
outcome.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br \
class=""></div></body></html>
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