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List: ms-ospf
Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?WG_Adoption_Poll_for_=E2=80=9CUsing_IS-IS_Multi-?=
From: "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" <acee=40cisco.com () dmarc ! ietf ! org>
Date: 2021-03-30 9:58:25
Message-ID: CFB45F52-EA5C-494B-8F9B-ED4C5FD924C6 () cisco ! com
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Hi Chongfeng,
From: Chongfeng Xie <chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 3:26 AM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" \
<lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for \
Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
Hi, Acee,
Thank you for your comments. I agree with your consideration about using mature and \
deployed control plane technologies, and this document does not introduce any new \
IS-IS encodings. While the resource-aware segments has the same format as the legacy \
SR segments, the difference is in the semantics. Thus the same control plane \
mechanism in this draft could be used with either the legacy SR SIDs or the \
resource-aware SIDs. Using it with legacy SR SIDs could also help to compute SR paths \
in a VTN taking its topology and resources as constraints. When used with the \
resource-aware SIDs, it can further provide VTNs with guaranteed resources. We could \
add some text about this to the draft if you think this is helpful.
Yes – that would be useful.
Thanks,
Acee
Best regards
Chongfeng
发件人： Acee Lindem \(acee\)<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
发送时间： 2021-03-30 03:32
收件人： Chongfeng Xie<mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>; Dongjie \
(Jimmy)<mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem \
(acee)<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> \
主题： Re: [Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03 Hi \
Chongfeng,
Given that the main argument for using MT to realize VTNs in the control plane is \
that it is a mature and deployed technology, requiring resource-aware segments, a new \
and evolving technology, defeats the purpose.
Thanks,
Acee
From: Chongfeng Xie <chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:58 AM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "chongfeng.xie" <chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, Jie \
Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, \
"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for \
Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
Hi, Acee,
Thanks for your comments. This document can be used with resource-aware segments to \
provide VTNs with guaranteed resources, while I agree it may also be used with legacy \
SR technologies. This could be clarified in next version.
Regards
Chongfeng
发件人： Acee Lindem (acee)<mailto:acee@cisco.com>
发送时间： 2021-03-27 18:31
收件人： Chongfeng Xie<mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>; Dongjie \
(Jimmy)<mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem \
(acee)<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> \
主题： Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03 Speaking \
as WG member:
Hi Chongfeng,
Another thing, if one is trying to support a VTN with legacy technologies, it would \
be good to decouple it from the SR resource-aware segments.
Thanks,
Acee
From: Chongfeng Xie <chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>
Date: Friday, March 26, 2021 at 11:15 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "chongfeng.xie" \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, \
"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for \
Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
Hi, Acee,
Thanks for your understanding about the deployment considerations and the value of \
reusing existing technologies when possible.
We have submitted the draft as draft-ietf-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-00 with only the change \
in the title and date. And we will expand section 5 and add references to relevant \
TEAS documents in next revision.
Chongfeng
发件人： Acee Lindem (acee)<mailto:acee@cisco.com>
发送时间： 2021-03-26 23:30
收件人： Dongjie (Jimmy)<mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>; Chongfeng \
Xie<mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>; Acee Lindem \
(acee)<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> \
主题： Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03 Hi Jie, \
Chongfeng,
I've read draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn and I agree that the combination of MT and SR \
could be used to meet a given SLO. Given that I work with products and customers, I \
also know there can be a significant time lag for qualification and deployment of a \
software version. In lieu of resource-aware segments, you could even use an existing \
technology like VLANs with appropriate QoS guarantees. Hence, I can see the value of \
using existing technologies. Please go ahead and republish draft-xie-lsr-sr-vtn-mt as \
draft-ietf-lsr-sr-vtn-mt-00.txt.
Section 5 can be expanded in subsequent revisions with appropriate references to TEAS \
documents.
Thanks,
Acee
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>
Date: Friday, March 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM
To: Chongfeng Xie <chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" \
<acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
Hi Acee,
I agree with what Chongfeng said about VTN. It refers to a virtual underlay network \
with specific topology and resource attributes, and the topology of VTNs can be \
specified using multi-topology. It is important to understand the difference between \
a VTN and a logical network topology.
As for the deployment choice and scalability, \
draft-dong-teas-enhanced-vpn-vtn-scalability gives some detailed analysis. In \
summary, it says in different network scenarios and phases, the required number of \
VTNs could be different, thus several options may be provided to meet different \
requirements, with different cost and time to market.
Best regards,
Jie
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Chongfeng Xie
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 2:14 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
Hi，Acee，
Regarding to the issues put forward in your mail, I'd like to provide some comments \
as below,
Q1：I'd like to know of the WG members who supported it, would you really want to \
market it as a VTN solution?
[CF]：VTN is defined in draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn, and also used in other \
documents. It is a technical term to refer to virtual underlay networks with specific \
topology and resource attributes. This document provides an MT based mechanism to \
build VTNs. If for marketing, perhaps it would be better called "network slicing":-)
Q2：Those of you who operate networks, would you actually consider deploying it?
[CF]：As an operator we will consider the scenarios and the requirements to pick the \
most suitable solution, IMO this is a good candidate for scenarios where the required \
number of VTN is not very large, and as it requires no new encodings, it could be \
ready for shipment soon. we plans to use this approach in some of our network \
deployment.
Q3：In any case, section 5 needs to be expanded on the scalability and where using \
MTs to support VTNs would make sense and where it wouldn't.
[CF]：OK. The current section 5 already has some text to cover this, and it can be \
expanded further to clarify.
Best regards
Chongfeng
发件人： Acee Lindem \(acee\)<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
发送时间： 2021-03-26 02:20
收件人： lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
主题： Re: [Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03 Speaking \
as WG chair:
There has been considerable support for this document. However, there has also been \
objections to the document. The objections are either that there is nothing to \
standardize given that all pieces exist and that the MT isn't a viable option for \
VTNs since it isn't scalable.
Since most of the draft's support is from "friends and family", I'd like to know of \
the WG members who supported it, would you really want to market it as a VTN \
solution? Those of you who operate networks, would you actually consider deploying \
it?
In any case, section 5 needs to be expanded on the scalability and where using MTs to \
support VTNs would make sense and where it wouldn't.
Thanks,
Acee
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of "Acee \
Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 6:28 PM
To: "lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment \
Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03
This information draft describes how MT could be used for VTN segmentation. The \
authors have asked for WG adoption.
This begins a three week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS \
Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03. I'm giving it three weeks due to the IETF next week. \
Please register your support or objection on this list prior to the end of the \
adoption poll on 3/24/2020.
Thanks,
Acee
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Chongfeng,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Chongfeng Xie \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com><br> <b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 3:26 \
AM<br> <b>To: </b>Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Jie Dong \
<jie.dong@huawei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org><br> \
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Re: [Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) \
for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi, Acee,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thank you for your comments. I \
agree with your consideration about using mature and deployed control plane \
technologies, and this document does not introduce any new IS-IS encodings. While the \
resource-aware segments has the same format as the legacy SR segments, the \
difference is in the semantics. Thus the same control plane mechanism in this draft \
could be used with either the legacy SR SIDs or the resource-aware SIDs. Using it \
with legacy SR SIDs could also help to compute SR paths in a VTN taking its topology \
and resources as constraints. When used with the resource-aware SIDs, it can further \
provide VTNs with guaranteed resources. We could add some text about this to the \
draft if you think this is helpful.<o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Yes – that would be \
useful. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Chongfeng<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:6.0pt;margin-right:inherit">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">Acee Lindem \
\(acee\)</a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">送</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">时间</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> 2021-03-30 03:32<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">收件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com">Chongfeng Xie</a>; <a \
href="mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com">Dongjie (Jimmy)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"> Acee Lindem (acee)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">主</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">题</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing \
based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Chongfeng,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Given that the main argument for using \
MT to realize VTNs in the control plane is that it is a mature and deployed \
technology, requiring resource-aware segments, a new and evolving technology, defeats \
the purpose. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Chongfeng Xie \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com><br> <b>Date: </b>Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:58 \
AM<br> <b>To: </b>Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "chongfeng.xie" \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "Acee \
Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" \
<lsr@ietf.org><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using \
IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hi, \
Acee,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks for your \
comments. This document can be used with resource-aware segments to provide VTNs with \
guaranteed resources, while I agree it may also be used with legacy SR technologies. \
This could be clarified in next version.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Chongfeng</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:6.0pt;margin-right:inherit">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:acee@cisco.com">Acee Lindem (acee)</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">送</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">时间</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> 2021-03-27 18:31</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">收件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com">Chongfeng Xie</a>; <a \
href="mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com">Dongjie (Jimmy)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"> Acee Lindem (acee)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">主</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">题</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing \
based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Speaking as WG member:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Chongfeng, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Another thing, if one is trying to \
support a VTN with legacy technologies, it would be good to decouple it from the SR \
resource-aware segments. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Chongfeng Xie \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com><br> <b>Date: </b>Friday, March 26, 2021 at 11:15 \
PM<br> <b>To: </b>Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Jie Dong \
<jie.dong@huawei.com>, "chongfeng.xie" \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" \
<acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" \
<lsr@ietf.org><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using \
IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">Hi, \
Acee,</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">Thanks for your understanding \
about the deployment considerations and the value of reusing existing technologies \
when possible.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.5pt">We have submitted the draft \
as draft-ietf-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-00 with only the change in the title and date. \
And we will expand section 5 and add references to relevant TEAS documents in next \
revision.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:11.5pt">Chongfeng </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:6.0pt;margin-right:inherit">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:acee@cisco.com">Acee Lindem (acee)</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">发</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">送</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">时间</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> 2021-03-26 23:30</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">收件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com">Dongjie (Jimmy)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com">Chongfeng Xie</a>; <a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"> Acee Lindem (acee)</a>; <a \
href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">主</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"PingFang \
TC",sans-serif;color:black">题</span></b><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"MS \
Gothic";color:black">：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Re:
[Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing \
based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Jie, Chongfeng,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I've read draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn \
and I agree that the combination of MT and SR could be used to meet a given SLO. \
Given that I work with products and customers, I also know there can be a significant \
time lag for qualification and deployment of a software version. In lieu of \
resource-aware segments, you could even use an existing technology like VLANs with \
appropriate QoS guarantees. Hence, I can see the value of using existing \
technologies. Please go ahead and republish draft-xie-lsr-sr-vtn-mt as \
draft-ietf-lsr-sr-vtn-mt-00.txt. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in">Section 5 can be expanded in subsequent revisions with \
appropriate references to TEAS documents. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black">From: </span></b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:black">Lsr \
<lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Jie Dong <jie.dong@huawei.com><br> \
<b>Date: </b>Friday, March 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM<br> <b>To: </b>Chongfeng Xie \
<chongfeng.xie@foxmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" \
<acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" \
<lsr@ietf.org><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS \
Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-family:SimSun"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Acee, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">I agree with what Chongfeng said about VTN. It \
refers to a virtual underlay network with specific topology and resource attributes, \
and the topology of VTNs can be specified using multi-topology. It is important to \
understand the difference between a VTN and a logical network topology. \
</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">As for the deployment choice and scalability, \
draft-dong-teas-enhanced-vpn-vtn-scalability gives some detailed analysis. In \
summary, it says in different network scenarios and phases, the required number of \
VTNs could be different, thus several options may be provided to meet different \
requirements, with different cost and time to market.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Jie</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Lsr \
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chongfeng Xie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 26, 2021 2:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; \
lsr@ietf.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS \
Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - \
draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Hi，Acee，</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Regarding to the issues put forward in your mail, \
I'd like to provide some comments as below,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Q1：I'd like to know of the WG members who \
supported it, would you really want to market it as a VTN \
solution? </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">[CF]：VTN is defined in \
draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn, and also used in other documents. It is a technical \
term to refer to virtual underlay networks with specific topology and resource \
attributes. This document provides an MT based mechanism to build VTNs. If for \
marketing, perhaps it would be better called "network \
slicing":-)</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Q2：Those of you who operate networks, would you \
actually consider deploying it? </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">[CF]：As an operator we will consider the scenarios \
and the requirements to pick the most suitable solution, IMO this is a good \
candidate for scenarios where the required number of VTN is not very large, and as it \
requires no new encodings, it could be ready for shipment soon. we plans to use this \
approach in some of our network deployment.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Q3：In any case, section 5 needs to be expanded on \
the scalability and where using MTs to support VTNs would make sense and where it \
wouldn't.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">[CF]：OK. The current section 5 already has some \
text to cover this, and it can be expanded further to \
clarify. </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">Chongfeng</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">发件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">Acee Lindem \
\(acee\)</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">发送时间：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> 2021-03-26 02:20</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">收件人：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <a \
href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:#EFEFEF"><b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei \
UI",sans-serif;color:black">主题：</span></b><span \
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Re: \
[Lsr]WG Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based \
Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Speaking as \
WG chair:</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">There has been considerable \
support for this document. However, there has also been objections to the document. \
The objections are either that there is nothing to standardize given that all pieces \
exist and that the MT isn't a viable option for VTNs since it isn't \
scalable.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Since most of the draft's support \
is from "friends and family", I'd like to know of the WG members who supported it, \
would you really want to market it as a VTN solution? Those of you who operate \
networks, would you actually consider deploying it? </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">In any case, section 5 needs to be \
expanded on the scalability and where using MTs to support VTNs would make sense and \
where it wouldn't. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Thanks,<br> \
Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div \
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span \
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lsr <<a \
href="mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>> on behalf of \
"Acee Lindem (acee)" <<a \
href="mailto:acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 6:28 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>" <<a \
href="mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] WG Adoption \
Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for Segment Routing based Virtual Transport \
Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">This \
information draft describes how MT could be used for VTN segmentation. The authors \
have asked for WG adoption. </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">This begins a \
three week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for "Using IS-IS Multi-Topology (MT) for \
Segment Routing based Virtual Transport Network" - draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-03. \
I'm giving it three weeks due to the IETF next week. Please register your support or \
objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll on 3/24/2020. \
</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black">Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span \
style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
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