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List: ms-ospf
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LANs in IGPs
From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg () cisco ! com>
Date: 2019-04-03 18:33:36
Message-ID: BYAPR11MB3638B4DF22B171DDAFA4F918C1570 () BYAPR11MB3638 ! namprd11 ! prod ! outlook ! com
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Robert –
Having one circuit (or even 2 or 3) run in LAN mode "unnecessarily" does not \
represent a significant scale issue. The need for the extension you suggest would \
come only when there are many such circuits which could change from 2 nodes only to > \
2 (and possibly back again). Unless that is a real world deployment case I would not \
consider the extension worth the trouble.
Les
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2019 11:17 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LANs in IGPs
Well imagine I am building DMZ with two gateways and a firewall connected to L2 \
switch. I run IGP between them so my iBGP next hops can resolve.
Later I may perhaps add third and fourth gateway.
I can not normally set it as p2p IGP day one, but it could operate fine for the first \
few years as such.
Thx,
R.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) \
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> wrote:
If you want a way to more easily enable P2P mode by default – speak to your \
favorite vendor. That is a feature – not a protocol extension.
Completely disagree. To detect how many IGP peers are on the interface and to do the \
switchover gracefully between 2 vs N or N vs 2 protocol extension is needed. It is \
not a single side local hack.
[Les:] You are saying that customers today need to deploy circuits on which they are \
uncertain whether they will connect two nodes or more than two nodes? This is the \
first I have heard of such a requirement.
If this really is a deployment requirement then such an extension could be \
considered. But since the extension isn't trivial and isn't backwards compatible I \
would not take this on without justification. Be interested to hear if anyone else on \
the deployment side of things believes this is needed.
Les
Thx,
R.
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Robert \
–<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Having \
one circuit (or even 2 or 3) run in LAN mode "unnecessarily" does not represent a \
significant scale issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The \
need for the extension you suggest would come only when there are many such circuits \
which could change from 2 nodes only to > 2 (and possibly back again). Unless \
that is a real world deployment case I would not consider the extension worth the \
trouble.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> \
Les<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Robert Raszuk \
<robert@raszuk.net> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 03, 2019 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Robert Raszuk <rraszuk@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] LANs in IGPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well imagine I am building DMZ with two gateways and a firewall \
connected to L2 switch. I run IGP between them so my iBGP next hops can \
resolve. <o:p></o:p></p> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Later I may perhaps add third and fourth \
gateway. <o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can not normally set it as p2p IGP day one, but it could \
operate fine for the first few years as such. <o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thx,<br>
R.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <<a \
href="mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in \
0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in \
0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> \
<div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If \
you want a way to more easily enable P2P mode by default – speak to your favorite \
vendor. That is a feature – not a protocol extension.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Completely disagree. To detect how \
many IGP peers are on the interface and to do the switchover gracefully between \
2 vs N or N vs 2 protocol extension is needed. It is not a single side local \
hack. </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Les:] \
You are saying that customers today need to deploy circuits on which they are \
uncertain whether they will connect two nodes or more than two \
nodes?</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This \
is the first I have heard of such a requirement.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If \
this really is a deployment requirement then such an extension could be considered. \
But since the extension isn't trivial and isn't backwards compatible I would not \
take this on without justification.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Be \
interested to hear if anyone else on the deployment side of things believes this is \
needed.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> \
Les</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thx,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">R.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target="_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" \
target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><o:p></o:p></p> \
</blockquote> </div>
</div>
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