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List: mifos-developer
Subject: Re: [Mifos-developer] Introduction: Hi My Name is Ruth
From: "Van Mittal-Henkle" <vanmh () grameenfoundation ! org>
Date: 2007-10-24 0:22:15
Message-ID: 9DD845C1ED0D5D40B4B56DF5A4B1EB0E020B541D () gfmail ! gfusa ! org
[Download RAW message or body]
great!
________________________________
From: mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Ruth
Frowein
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:59 PM
To: Developer
Subject: Re: [Mifos-developer] Introduction: Hi My Name is Ruth
Hi Van,
This makes sense. I'll take a look at it.
Cheers,
-rutje
On 10/22/07, Van Mittal-Henkle < vanmh@grameenfoundation.org
<mailto:vanmh@grameenfoundation.org> > wrote:
Hi Ruth,
It is probalby worth evaluating how much work it would be to get
the Watir scripts running again, and then make a decision from there
about how to move forward.
Cheers,
--Van
________________________________
From: mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Ruth
Frowein
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:20 PM
To: Developer
Subject: Re: [Mifos-developer] Introduction: Hi My Name is Ruth
Hi Van,
I think the Watir scripts should be translated to any tool used
in the future, as they provide a nice starting point and proof of
concept for testing the tool. I don't know if it is logical to bridge
Ruby/Watir into the new tool, however, if the goal is to move away from
extraneous dependencies... Would it make sense to continue to run them
as is (assuming they don't need major refactoring) using Watir for now,
gradually fading them out as new scripts become available?
Thanks,
-r
On 10/19/07, Van Mittal-Henkle <vanmh@grameenfoundation.org>
wrote:
Hi Ruth,
Welcome to the list! Thanks for the detailed and
thoughtful presentation of ideas around QA technique and process.
There is enough here that it may take some time to
digest it all ;-)
The idea of using Selenium RC to keep test code in Java
is an appealing one. Glad to hear that you're a fan of Fitnesse. Tom
(one of the developers working on Mifos) has been doing the work with
Fitnesse that you noted.
I would be interested to know if you feel the Watir
scripts could be used in the process of moving to Selenium RC or if
starting from a clean slate would be the likely path.
Cheers,
--Van
________________________________
From: mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Ruth
Frowein
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:09 PM
To: Developer
Subject: [Mifos-developer] Introduction: Hi My Name is
Ruth
Thought I'd introduce myself and get some feedback about
some thoughts regarding testing Mifos going forward... Please forgive
the long post.
About me: I've been involved in testing for over seven
years. I really love it. Right now I'm between gigs, and thought I
would contribute to your project -to work on my development/QA skills
and do something meaningful with experience.
So I've been looking around your site and mulling over
some ways to add value with my QA skills (there isn't a whole documented
about opensource QA contributions :-)). I'm just going to lay out what
I gather from what I read and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm on
track/point me to more resources. Below is all IMHO --so let me know
what I've missed, paths you've already taken etc. etc.
(n.b.: I'm looking at this purely from a
functional/acceptance level. I see that there is coverage with unit
tests/development automation and it looks like you're doing the right
things there.)
It appears that most/all acceptance testing is being
done manually and there aren't any dedicated resources to this problem,
so I have a hunch that there is an awful lot of work falling on the
business team. Because this is open source and many ideas are
converging, I think the best way forward is to automate now (and worry
about the long-term possible side effects later).
I see that there is work to provide functional
automation using Fitnesse and extending it's features. This is pure
genius :-)!
I see some outdated scripts in Watir and one script in
Selenium RC/Ruby. This is a great start, but using Ruby in a js/Java
environment introduces another dependency and adds a layer between QA
and Development. I'd like to see Java based automation going forward
with a layer for Business to create acceptance tests. This means anyone
working on the code base can update/extend tests as needed -instead of
expecting developers to have skills in an additional language (as sweet
as Ruby is).
Skip to the bottom for implementation overview/tool
list.
****
Process for an iteration (based on my experience this is
Shangri-La -but I've always loved to travel):
1. Iteration is defined and the requirements
determined. Part of this work is determining the test setup/tear down
for each feature (Development/Business/QA)
2. Development draws up tasks and begins work
3. Business using the automation creates the first
acceptance test skeletons
4. QA using the automation creates the functional
test skeletons based on tasks & requirements.
5. Developers drop code
6. Business/QA using the automation fills in the
acceptance tests
7. Development/QA writes the code and using the
automation fills in the functional tests
8. Bugs/New Stories/and automated regression
passes.
9. Relaxed Release and Celebration
Some definitions & examples (according to Ruth -feedback
welcome):
*Requirements are user story/use cases.
The requirements to log on are: Only registered users
are able to log on and the
password must match the user name.
*Test setup/tear down determine the set of data to test,
the state of the DB, the state of the
application before and after the tests run.
*Acceptance tests are UI driven.
Verify user X can log in using password 123 would
launch a browser and log in.
*Functional tests are business layer driven.
*The automation skeletons are assert the requirements
have been met by the code.
Acceptance Tests:
VerifyTextExsits | "Welcome to mifos userX"
VerifyTextExists | "User Name or Password are
incorrect." (for incorrect login)
Functional Tests:
Assert getUserContext | X
Assert getUserContext | null (for incorrect login)
****
The tools used to automate this process are:
1. Fitnesse: http://fitnesse.org/ a wiki which
runs acceptance tests based on tabular inputs.
2. Selenium RC: http://openqa.org/selenium-rc/
drives the UI FF & IE
3. Selenium IDE: http://openqa.org/selenium-ide/
records the UI movements and outputs text in Fitnesse table format
4. Glue*: Fitnesse fixture which translates runs
Selenium RC from Fitnesse and translates the table commands into
Selenium RC (DSL)
5. Fitnesse Fixtures for functional testing.
6. Ant/Cruise Control kicks off suites tests
(Smoke/Regression/specific test)
*I suggest the Glue be home grown. I did find a tool
(open source) which provides this glue but is based purely on Selenium
core and will thus only work in IE. But it may provide a start if you
are interested, I've gone through the pain of setting it up and getting
testing going -so can offer that if you are interested. Once the home
grown Glue is complete, there should be a relatively simple migration
path(as both are based on Fitnesse).
****
Again, apologies for the long post, but I wanted to get
wide feedback from anyone who is interested and provide a full
explanation of where I'm coming from -will limit scope/size in the
future promise! :-)
Cheers,
-r
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=843082200-24102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>great!</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ruth
Frowein<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 22, 2007 7:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Developer<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mifos-developer] Introduction: Hi My Name is
Ruth<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Van,<BR><BR>This makes sense. I'll take a look at
it.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>-rutje<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 10/22/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Van
Mittal-Henkle</B> <<A href="mailto:vanmh@grameenfoundation.org">
vanmh@grameenfoundation.org</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) \
1px solid"> <DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Ruth,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It is
probalby worth evaluating how much work it would be to get the Watir scripts
running again, and then make a decision from there about how to move
forward.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>--Van</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN class=q><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net"
target=_blank>mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net</A> [mailto:<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net"
target=_blank>mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net</A>] <B>On Behalf
Of </B>Ruth Frowein<BR></SPAN><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 19, 2007 3:20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Developer<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mifos-developer]
Introduction: Hi My Name is Ruth<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_115ca21fcfa6bc72_3>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Van,<BR><BR>I think the Watir scripts should be translated to
any tool used in the future, as they provide a nice starting point and proof
of concept for testing the tool. I don't know if it is logical to bridge
Ruby/Watir into the new tool, however, if the goal is to move away from
extraneous dependencies... Would it make sense to continue to run them
as is (assuming they don't need major refactoring) using Watir for now,
gradually fading them out as new scripts become available?
<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>-r<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 10/19/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Van
Mittal-Henkle</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vanmh@grameenfoundation.org"
target=_blank>vanmh@grameenfoundation.org</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) \
1px solid"> <DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Ruth,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Welcome
to the list! Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful presentation of
ideas around QA technique and process.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There is
enough here that it may take some time to digest it all
;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The idea
of using Selenium RC to keep test code in Java is an appealing one.
Glad to hear that you're a fan of Fitnesse. Tom (one of the
developers working on Mifos) has been doing the work with Fitnesse that you
noted.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I would
be interested to know if you feel the Watir scripts could be used in the
process of moving to Selenium RC or if starting from a clean slate would be
the likely path.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>--Van</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net"
target=_blank>mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net </A>[mailto:<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net"
target=_blank>mifos-developer-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Ruth Frowein<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 19, 2007 1:09
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Developer<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Mifos-developer]
Introduction: Hi My Name is Ruth<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Thought I'd
introduce myself and get some feedback about
some thoughts regarding testing Mifos going
forward... Please forgive the long post.<BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">About me:
I've been involved in testing for over
seven years. I really love it.
Right now I'm between gigs, and thought
I would contribute to your project –to
work on my development/QA skills and do
something meaningful with experience. </P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">So I've been
looking around your site and mulling over
some ways to add value with my QA
skills (there isn't a whole documented about
opensource QA contributions :-)). I'm just
going to lay out what I gather from
what I read and hopefully someone can
tell me if I'm on track/point me to
more resources. Below is all IMHO --so let me know what I've
missed, paths you've already taken etc. etc.</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">(n.b.: I'm
looking at this purely from a
functional/acceptance level. I see that
there is coverage with unit tests/development
automation and it looks like you're doing
the right things there.)</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">It appears
that most/all acceptance testing is being
done manually and there aren't any dedicated
resources to this problem, so I have a
hunch that there is an awful lot of
work falling on the business team.
Because this is open source and many
ideas are converging, I think the best
way forward is to automate now (and
worry about the long-term possible side
effects later). </P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">I see that
there is work to provide functional
automation using Fitnesse and extending it's
features. This is pure genius :-)!</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">I see some
outdated scripts in Watir and one script
in Selenium RC/Ruby. This is a great
start, but using Ruby in a js/Java
environment introduces another dependency and
adds a layer between QA and Development.
I'd like to see Java based automation
going forward with a layer for Business
to create acceptance tests. This means
anyone working on the code base can
update/extend tests as needed –instead of
expecting developers to have skills in an
additional language (as sweet as Ruby is).</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Skip to the
bottom for implementation overview/tool list.
<BR></P><BR>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center">****<BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></P>Process for
an iteration (based on my experience this
is Shangri-La –but I've always loved to travel):
<OL style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.2in">
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Iteration
is defined and the requirements determined.
Part of this work is determining the
test setup/tear down for each feature
(Development/Business/QA)</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Development
draws up tasks and begins work</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Business
using the automation creates the first
acceptance test skeletons</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">QA
using the automation creates the functional
test skeletons based on tasks &
requirements.</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Developers
drop code</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Business/QA
using the automation fills in the
acceptance tests</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Development/QA
writes the code and using the automation
fills in the functional tests</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Bugs/New
Stories/and automated regression passes.</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Relaxed
Release and Celebration</P></LI></OL>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Some definitions
& examples (according to Ruth –feedback
welcome):</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*Requirements
are user story/use cases.</P>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: \
0in">The requirements to log on are: Only \
registered users are able to log on and \
the </P> <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: \
0in"> password must match the user name.</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*Test
setup/tear down determine the set of data
to test, the state of the DB, the
state of the </P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"> application
before and after the tests run.</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*Acceptance
tests are UI driven.</P>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: \
0in"> Verify user X can log in using \
password 123 would launch a browser and \
log in.</P> <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*Functional
tests are business layer driven.</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*The
automation skeletons are assert the requirements
have been met by the code.</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Acceptance Tests:</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">VerifyTextExsits
| "Welcome to mifos userX"</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">VerifyTextExists
| "User Name or Password are incorrect."
(for incorrect login)</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Functional Tests:</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Assert
getUserContext | X</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Assert
getUserContext | null (for incorrect login)</P><BR>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center">****<BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">The tools
used to automate this process are:</P>
<OL style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.2in">
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Fitnesse: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://fitnesse.org/" target=_blank>http://fitnesse.org/</A>
a wiki which runs acceptance tests based
on tabular inputs.</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Selenium RC: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://openqa.org/selenium-rc/"
target=_blank>http://openqa.org/selenium-rc/</A>
drives the UI FF & IE</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Selenium IDE: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://openqa.org/selenium-ide/"
target=_blank>http://openqa.org/selenium-ide/</A>
records the UI movements and outputs text
in Fitnesse table format</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Glue*:
Fitnesse fixture which translates runs
Selenium RC from Fitnesse and translates
the table commands into Selenium RC (DSL)</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Fitnesse
Fixtures for functional testing.</P>
<LI>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Ant/Cruise
Control kicks off suites tests
(Smoke/Regression/specific test)</P></LI></OL>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">*I suggest
the Glue be home grown. I did
find a tool (open source) which provides
this glue but is based purely on
Selenium core and will thus only work
in IE. But it may provide a start
if you are interested, I've gone through
the pain of setting it up and getting
testing going –so can offer that if
you are interested. Once the home
grown Glue is complete, there should be
a relatively simple migration path(as both
are based on Fitnesse).</P><BR>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center">****<BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Again, apologies
for the long post, but I wanted to
get wide feedback from anyone who is
interested and provide a full explanation of
where I'm coming from –will limit
scope/size in the future promise! :-)</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in"><BR></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in">Cheers,</P>
<P
style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: \
0in">-r</P></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>This \
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