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List:       mediawiki-l
Subject:    Re: [MediaWiki-l] [Mediawiki-enterprise] WG: How to make MediaWiki easier to install: use cases
From:       Bill Traynor <btraynor () gmail ! com>
Date:       2014-06-12 14:49:02
Message-ID: CAN20qYoapeQG9TM7M2RPQLO5H_P+PCJDCf36TiVTH335ujKKqg () mail ! gmail ! com
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Just thought I'm add my use case, which is very close to 3.

I manage 2 mediawiki installations on separate servers.  One is a
shared scenario where I do not have root, but do have full write
access to my installation directory.  The second, I have root.  In
both cases, I manage both core and extensions using Git.  I have not
had the time to look into Composer yet, although I'm not sure why I
would, as I prefer the Git method.  My only gripe is I don't track
Extensions as submodules, so I have to upgrade Extensions from the
command line individually using git pull, or git checkout REL1.nn
during version releases.

I really like how I do it now, as it gives me more control, and I'd
hope this method would not go away.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Markus Glaser <glaser@hallowelt.biz> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> this is a discussion happening on wikitech-l at the moment. I think this is also of \
> interest to all the mediawiki users out there ;) Please share your thoughts! 
> Best,
> Markus
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org \
>                 [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Im Auftrag von \
>                 Gabriel Wicke
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Juni 2014 20:48
> An: Wikimedia developers
> Betreff: [Wikitech-l] How to make MediaWiki easier to install: use cases
> 
> In the current discussion about git submodules vs. composer there are several \
> different underlying assumptions about the user's situation. I think it would help \
> the discussion to clarify which use cases we are dealing with. Here is an attempt:
> 
> 1) Shared hosting without shell. The user uploads code with (s)ftp, and can't \
> install anything globally. 
> 2) Shared hosting with non-root shell and git installed. The user can use git \
> directly on the server, but can't install anything globally without root. They can \
> manually download composer to their home directory. 
> 3) Root on a (virtual) server. The user can install packages, and do any of the \
> above. 
> The git submodules vs. composer discussion seems to focus on case 2). Case
> 1) could be addressed by providing a 'bundle' tar file with all dependencies that \
> can be uploaded via (s)ftp. In case 2) composer or git can be used on the server to \
> fetch dependencies separately. 
> When using git, it might be worth considering Parsoid's method of making the core \
> repository a submodule of a 'core-deploy' repository which has all dependencies, \
> rather than making the dependencies a submodule of core. This avoids issues with \
> git complaining about dirty submodules in the common case of updating core often. 
> In case 3) the user has a full packaging system at their disposal, which means that \
> it is theoretically possible to set up a fully-featured MediaWiki system with a few \
> commands. So far we don't have any special support for this case (we expect users \
> to follow the manual tarball setup), which made sense in the past as folks running \
> their own server were fairly rare. 
> Many of our users are starting to take advantage of cheap virtual machines though, \
> which are now widely available at a price point comparable to shared hosting. For \
> this reason I think that we should put more effort into supporting case 3), for \
> example by providing good Debian packaging which lets you do "apt-get install \
> mediawiki-full" and get a MediaWiki install with caching, VisualEditor and so on. \
> There are also other benefits here beyond the initial install, like automatic \
> security updates with unattended-upgrades. 
> So far we don't have a good idea of how common the different use cases are, and how \
> this distribution is changing. I think that we should try to get this information \
> so that we can have a more informed debate. 
> Gabriel
> 
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