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List: macports-dev
Subject: Re: Ruby question: solution for dependency version specs?
From: Gagan Sidhu via macports-dev <macports-dev () lists ! macports ! org>
Date: 2024-03-24 1:06:21
Message-ID: 018EBB76-CCC6-4154-AC57-0B3721D248D0 () mac ! com
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dear fred,
i understand this is the dev mailing list and politeness does not supersede \
correctness given the topical nature of this mailing list.
i am the last one to be pedantic, but serge *did* qualify his statement with a \
"should" (i.e. expectation), meaning it was not absolute.
let us not be too strong with our correctness and trample the spirit of our \
already-scarce contributors, lest we want them to defect to our snooty fink-derived \
alcohol competitor.
ta ta'
Thanks,
Gagan
P.S/ valerio, you know what's coming next time you post, so be ready.
-i didn't want to scare you off by saying it earlier this week, because i was \
already worried i scared you off the first time!
> On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:59 PM, Fred Wright <fw@fwright.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2024, Sergio Had wrote:
>
> > I have no idea what is going on with archaic versions, but Ruby 3.1+ through \
> > ruby-devel (3.4) should work on every system.
>
> Please stop posting falsehoods. Ruby 3.1-3.3 most certainly do *not* work on every \
> system (yet), and I posted a list of the failing cases in another thread where you \
> were a participant. I haven't looked at 3.4.
> > They are, and everything relevant is rb33-* etc. Unversioned one which use rb18 \
> > should re updated or removed: we have no reason to keep Ruby versions prior to \
> > 3.0, since 3.0 works on Tiger, and 3.1+ work on Leopard through Sonoma. That also \
> > includes PowerPC systems.
>
> Again, false.
>
> For at least the past few years, no version of Ruby has worked on all systems until \
> I personally fixed it, and I haven't had a chance to fix anything later than 3.0 \
> yet. And contrary to popular belief, Ruby 3.0 isn't (quite) EOL yet.
> As far as having multiple versions goes, Ruby is just like many other things, where \
> having multiple versions is useful for (at least):
> 1) Testing code against multiple versions.
>
> 2) Using a textbook that is based on a particular version.
>
> 3) Avoiding brokenness in one or more versions.
>
> No too long ago, the instructions for building the RaspberryPi docs stated that \
> asciidoctor needed to be run with Ruby 2.7 because it didn't work properly with 3.0 \
> (at least for their files). While that no longer seems to be the case, it does \
> serve to illustrate that newer isn't always better, and that it's best to give \
> users a choice as to what version to use, rather than inflicting someone else's \
> notion of the one true best version on them.
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Austin Ziegler wrote:
>
> > I also think that the `ruby` port needs to be renamed to `ruby18` and `port
> > install ruby` should *either* fail (like `port install python` or `port
> > install python3` does) or it should install the latest stable version
> > (updated on Christmas Day every year).
>
> Agreed. Presumably this came about because having multiple versions wasn't \
> initially anticipated. It's unfortunate that (unlike some other packaging systems) \
> MacPorts doesn't have a way to directly make multiple versions of something \
> available without resorting to the kludge of building the version number into the \
> name.
> Fred Wright
[Attachment #3 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">dear fred,<div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">i understand this is the dev mailing list and politeness \
does not supersede correctness given the topical nature of this mailing \
list.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">i am the last one to be \
pedantic, but serge *did* qualify his statement with a "should" (i.e. expectation), \
meaning it was not absolute.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">let \
us not be too strong with our correctness and trample the spirit of our \
already-scarce contributors, lest we want them to defect to our snooty fink-derived \
alcohol competitor.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ta \
ta'</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""> <div \
dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: \
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: \
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; \
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" \
class=""><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: \
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: \
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Thanks,</div><div \
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; \
text-decoration: none;">Gagan</div></div></div> </div>
<div><br class=""></div><div>P.S/ valerio, you know what's coming next time you post, \
so be ready. </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" \
style="white-space:pre"> </span>-i didn't want to scare you off by saying it earlier \
this week, because i was already worried i scared you off the first \
time!</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar \
23, 2024, at 6:59 PM, Fred Wright <<a href="mailto:fw@fwright.net" \
class="">fw@fwright.net</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><br class="">On Sun, 17 \
Mar 2024, Sergio Had wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" \
class="">I have no idea what is going on with archaic versions, but Ruby 3.1+ through \
ruby-devel (3.4) should work on every system.<br class=""></blockquote><br \
class="">Please stop posting falsehoods. Ruby 3.1-3.3 most certainly do *not* work on \
every system (yet), and I posted a list of the failing cases in another thread where \
you were a participant. I haven't looked at 3.4.<br class=""><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">They are, and everything relevant is rb33-* \
etc. Unversioned one which use rb18 should re updated or removed: we have no reason \
to keep Ruby versions prior to 3.0, since 3.0 works on Tiger, and 3.1+ work on \
Leopard through Sonoma. That also includes PowerPC systems.<br \
class=""></blockquote><br class="">Again, false.<br class=""><br class="">For at \
least the past few years, no version of Ruby has worked on all systems until I \
personally fixed it, and I haven't had a chance to fix anything later than 3.0 yet. \
And contrary to popular belief, Ruby 3.0 isn't (quite) EOL yet.<br class=""><br \
class="">As far as having multiple versions goes, Ruby is just like many other \
things, where having multiple versions is useful for (at least):<br class=""><br \
class="">1) Testing code against multiple versions.<br class=""><br class="">2) Using \
a textbook that is based on a particular version.<br class=""><br class="">3) \
Avoiding brokenness in one or more versions.<br class=""><br class="">No too long \
ago, the instructions for building the RaspberryPi docs stated that asciidoctor \
needed to be run with Ruby 2.7 because it didn't work properly with 3.0 (at least for \
their files). While that no longer seems to be the case, it does serve to \
illustrate that newer isn't always better, and that it's best to give users a choice \
as to what version to use, rather than inflicting someone else's notion of the one \
true best version on them.<br class=""><br class="">On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Austin \
Ziegler wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">I also think \
that the `ruby` port needs to be renamed to `ruby18` and `port<br class="">install \
ruby` should *either* fail (like `port install python` or `port<br class="">install \
python3` does) or it should install the latest stable version<br class="">(updated on \
Christmas Day every year).<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Agreed. \
Presumably this came about because having multiple versions wasn't initially \
anticipated. It's unfortunate that (unlike some other packaging systems) \
MacPorts doesn't have a way to directly make multiple versions of something available \
without resorting to the kludge of building the version number into the name.<br \
class=""><br class="">Fred Wright<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br \
class=""></div></body></html>
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