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List:       linux-wireless
Subject:    Re: [ipw3945-devel] Request for help...
From:       "Maurizio Monge" <maurizio.monge () gmail ! com>
Date:       2007-07-25 0:45:31
Message-ID: e4c519350707241745l65315397o7452430a092ffdfb () mail ! gmail ! com
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I agree with Stephen, and i purchased a laptop with intel
graphics/wireless for exactly the same reason too.
Now i really hope that this thread instead of continuing as a flamewar
will positively help intel developer to have better interactions with
wireless-dev people, as it would be in the best interest for both.

My €.02 (but note that they are € and not $ :) )

On 7/25/07, Stephen Clark <Stephen.Clark@seclark.us> wrote:
> Jeff Garzik wrote:
> 
> > James Ketrenos wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > There is a reason why we say "release early, release often."  If
> > > > wireless developers don't hear from Intel on a regular basis,
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > The "community" vs. "Intel" slant is really getting old.
> > > *WE* are part of the community.  *WE* have submitted patches.  *WE* have
> > > done work to bring wireless forward.  *WE* are wireless developers.
> > > 
> > > It isn't Intel's fault that certain people have historically made it so
> > > difficult to get code to into wireless-dev's mac80211 (and eventually
> > > *maybe* upstream) that contributors have decided to focus on getting
> > > their code out to users through other means.
> > > 
> > > A version of mac80211 being available out-of-tree with features not
> > > found in wireless-dev isn't the problem.  The problem is that people
> > > have made it too difficult to innovate and develop in wireless-dev.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Well, the facts according to my search are:
> > 
> > * last iwlwifi submit was almost two months ago, in a form difficult to
> > review and discuss on the mailing list, save for a bug fix.  And I note,
> > the submission went into wireless-dev rapidly.
> > 
> > * last mac80211 patches were almost three months ago, save for two small
> > add-ioctl patches from Mohamed and Hong.
> > 
> > * no one else seems to have the same trouble getting patches in
> > 
> > Whereas other developers are actively posting patches, big and small, to
> > linux-wireless on a regular basis.  I just don't see much activity at
> > all on {linux-kernel,linux-wireless,netdev} from Intel with regards to
> > the new wireless.
> > 
> > Intel is the only wireless driver developer doing development
> > "elsewhere", rather than where the wireless hackers hang out.  Even
> > assuming a hypothetical worst case of 100% patch drops, you should be
> > working and posting where other developers are also working and posting.
> > That is just a BASIC part of the open source kernel engineering process.
> > 
> > Another key part of open source is "release early, release often" so
> > that people are aware of your work and needs, and can provide rapid
> > feedback.  That means posting most patches to linux-wireless as soon as
> > they work on your basic quick-test setup.  Intel is definitely not
> > "releasing early and often" from the LKML perspective.
> > 
> > Though in fairness, I am a bit disappointed that wireless-dev seems to
> > occasionally become a resting place for drivers, rather than just a pit
> > stop on the way to upstream.  In particular, stuff still has not been
> > moved out of drivers/net/wireless/mac80211 and into
> > drivers/net/wireless, which is a basic and easy step to get all code
> > ready for upstream.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> I find it really sad that a hardware vendor that is willing to write and develope \
> drivers for Linux for their hardware aren't helped more by "the community" or is \
> the "the community" only interested in hacking drivers where the manufacturer give \
> no or minimal support? 
> I appreciate Intel's support for being open and purposely bought a laptop that had \
> an Intel graphics chipset and an Intel wireless card. 
> My $.02
> Steve
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety."  (Ben Franklin)
> 
> "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty
> decreases."  (Thomas Jefferson)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Ciao
Maurizio
http://stregatto.wordpress.com

"Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun" (John Lennon)
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