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List: linux-audio-dev
Subject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?
From: <gerald.mwangi () gmx ! de>
Date: 2013-02-10 22:38:00
Message-ID: 20130210223800.6A981621E2 () lists ! linuxaudio ! org
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Correction:<br>"<br><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Prelude, Verdana, \
san-serif">Now of course , one can't expose options of all programs in the \
session-front-end but just the most important ones to quickly set up the project. \
'"</font><br><br>I ment: one can't expose all options of each program, but just the \
most important options of each program to quickly set up the \
project.<br>Sorry,<br>Gerald<br><span id="signature" style="font-family: Prelude, \
Verdana, san-serif; "><div style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: \
12px;color: #999999">-- Sent from my HP TouchPad</div></span><span style="color: \
navy; font-family: Prelude, Verdana, san-serif; "><hr align="left" \
style="width:75%">On 10.02.2013 23:05, gerald.mwangi@gmx.de \
<gerald.mwangi@gmx.de> wrote: <br></span>Auto mode for JACK latency is a good \
idea.<br> I have another proposition: a dedicated graphical front-end for jack \
session. It could help users setup their workflow , by providing a list of all the \
jack aware programs installed, categorized by type (sampler, daw, synth). The program \
should aid in setting up a project , eg firing up ardour with several tracks, firing \
up synths (lv2 instruments/hosts incl) with presets selectable from the front-end \
with a preview sound. The front-end could trigger the synth in question with a midi \
note when selecting a preset. Lv2 plugins, that is pure audio effects, could also \
listed with the ability to directly send a signal from the audio interface through \
the selected plugin to quickly hear what it does. One could then associate the \
selected plugin with, say a track in ardour, and another plugin with a track in \
hydrogen or so. <br>This would just be for setting up a project. The fine tuning \
comes later.<br> Such a front-end could give the linux audio ecosystem as a \
whole a face, just like qjackctl gives JACK a face, and it does not degrade the \
quality of the ecosystem. Now of course , one can't expose options of all programs in \
the session-front-end but just the most important ones to quickly set up the project. \
You may think, why not just create templates, scripts so on? Well my personal \
subjective answer: my musical projects vary . I simply can't create templates and \
scripts because the configuration changes immensely from song to song. So the \
proposed front-end should allow a quick start into the project so that one could \
rapidly record an idea.<br>This front-end could also list audio programs, plugins \
which are currently not installed, so that they are discoverable within one central \
place, much like an app-store or specialized repo (it could be connected to popular \
linux audio repos, e.g kxstudio).<br>As a developer in computer vision (I'm doing my \
PhD developing largely on ubuntu) I am aware technical nitty gritty detail problems \
(realtime video has a lot in common with realtime audio), but here I'm trying to \
portray a bigger vision/picture. <br>I've ditched windows years ago, and I have never \
owned an apple product. But I strongly recommend to learn from the two, to cleanly \
analyze the good and bad aspects of propriety audio software. Then cherry-pick the \
good aspects. This can only benefit open-source in general. And to make it clear: it \
is not my intention to grow the userbase at any cost. I rather want enhance the user \
experience quality for us current users, devs. You heard it: devs too;-) but in a \
manner that people can opt in to do things the way they want (no one would have to \
use the proposed front-end) .<br>I can go further: such a front-end only makes sense \
if jack-session support is made mandatory, which I've suggested before and earned a \
storm of negative replies. So let the storm come \
;-)<br>Cheers,<br>Gerald<br><span><br><br></span><span id="signature"><div>-- Sent \
from my HP TouchPad</div></span><span><hr align="left">On 10.02.2013 17:58, Dan \
MacDonald <allcoms@gmail.com> wrote: <br></span>Hi Ralf!<br><br><div \
class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net" \
target="_blank">ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote"> <div class="im">On Sun, 2013-02-10 at 09:59 +0000, Dan MacDonald \
wrote:<br> > * JACK needs to become more plug-and-play. I think its a shame it<br>
> still offers no way to auto-detect optimal settings on any given setup<br>
> and instead the user has to find out what options to tweak then find<br>
> the best settings through trial and error.<br>
<br>
</div>How should it be done to auto-detect the best settings? IMO it's<br>
impossible.<br></blockquote><div><br>Surely its possible to get an optimized JACK \
setup working better than it does currently?<br><br>I'm not advocating JACK lose any \
of its options but what I'm thinking is something like this. Lets call the way JACK \
gets started at present the manual mode and I want to see an auto ('low latency \
scanner') mode added. On first run, auto-mode would do something equivalent to \
running a stripped down ecasound that would run a series of tests to determine the \
best settings (for tracking) that your setup can currently achieve without xruns. It \
would likely be up to the user to re-run the auto tests when they change hardware \
unless auto mode scans for that too. Exactly what the test would comprise of I'm not \
sure but maybe something like simulating a tracking a few tracks w/ plugins added to \
each. JACK has a dummy audio device so I'm presuming here that it could simulate \
recording sound too else maybe this is impossible.<br> <br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote"> <div class="im">><br>
> * JACK can still fail to start and just leave the user with some<br>
> pretty cryptic errors as to why it failed.<br>
<br>
</div>I experienced this very seldom, but it's true, I at least remember one<br>
very strange example on jack devel mailing list a while ago. The output<br>
lead into a completely wrong direction.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> * JACK can't hot swap audio devices and so if the user wants this<br>
> feature they have to integrate PA with JACK which sadly still isn't<br>
> straightforward under many popular distros and then the user has to<br>
> learn about how ALSA, PA and JACK interact.<br>
<br>
</div>Are there many cases when users need to switch the audio \
device?<br></blockquote><div><br>I switch audio device several times a day. Sometimes \
I'll use onboard audio, sometimes I'll use my USB portable hifi output and sometimes \
I'll be using my Focusrite. They all have their own use cases.<br> \
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"> <br>
> [snip]<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> In fact, I'm a bit concerned that if Bitwig leads to an explosion of<br>
> commercial apps and plugins for Linux and LA busts out of its niche<br>
> that LA* will suffer a kinda Ubuntu/Android effect where these lists<br>
> will get swamped with newb questions and cause many of our valued<br>
> members to unsubscribe.<br>
<br>
</div>There's already energyXT, but it didn't cause such an \
explosion.<br></blockquote><div><br>energyXT is in no way comparable in sheer hype \
and the music tech industry/market interest thats surrounding Bitwig. energyXT is \
unlikely to be counted in the top 50 DAWs now or at the time of its initial release. \
Ableton and its offspring Bitwig are a BIG deal for Linux and music tech as a whole \
as Ableton has enjoyed being one of the most popular music production apps of recent \
years. Ableton has real market recognition which Bitwig is inheriting and its very \
likely one of the top 5 most popular music apps today. energyXT?<br> <br>Whether \
you're into these sequencers or not, many people are so Bitwig is big news Ralf - \
BIIIIIIG!!! :D<br></div></div>
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