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List: lilypond-devel
Subject: Lilypond problems
From: Holtrop Sheila <holtropksk () sbcglobal ! net>
Date: 2005-06-30 3:34:17
Message-ID: 20050630033417.73262.qmail () web80731 ! mail ! yahoo ! com
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[Attachment #2 (multipart/alternative)]
To whom it may concern,
I was intrigued by Lilypond and the Mutopia project. As a sign of support I attempted \
to use Lilypond to engrave the following four Ragtime piano pieces: Magnetic Rag, \
Weeping Willow, Pineapple Rag, and Topliner Rag.
Unfortunately, using Lilypond I was unable to mimic the existing piano engraving and \
layout on any of this music. This makes your software and the Mutopia project a \
philosophically noble enterprise that can’t be implemented. It needs to be possible \
to easily mimic common music notation (and without resorting to any kludges) within \
your language framework.
There were two major problems in the Lilypond software for me in engraving these \
piano pieces:
Problem 1: Slurs and ties cannot be properly implemented in many cases. I have \
attached a small Lilypond file that demonstrates the problems I have encountered. \
These measures are cut from the various songs I tried.
1.) Slurs and ties can’t be tied to different voices (Measures 1 and 2).
2.) Ties that defy normal engraving. (Measure 3). This measure was copied directly \
from a song where the tie from the b arched upwards. Here is arches downwards.
3.) Ties clashing with other engraving. (Measures 4 and 5).
4.) Ties don’t carry into a second part of your repeat volta structure (Measure 6 and \
8)
Problem 2: Lack of control over measure length and layout. Many piano pieces are laid \
out so that a repeat-volta structure ends at the end of a page to eliminate page \
turning. This may necessitate some stretching or compressing in other measures to \
achieve this. This results in a more aesthetic and more playable (eliminating page \
turning) engraving. There needs to be a way to easily set the number of measures per \
page and per line to achieve this.
Good luck on your software.
Kurt
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>To \
whom it may concern,</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT \
face="Times New Roman" size=3>I was intrigued by Lilypond and the Mutopia project. As \
a sign of support I attempted to use Lilypond to engrave the following four Ragtime \
piano pieces: Magnetic Rag, Weeping Willow, Pineapple Rag, and Topliner \
Rag.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT \
face="Times New Roman"> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = \
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" \
size=3>Unfortunately, using Lilypond I was unable to mimic the existing piano \
engraving and layout on any of this music. This makes your software and the Mutopia \
project a philosophically noble enterprise that can’t be implemented. It needs to be \
possible to easily mimic common music notation (and without resorting to any kludges) \
within your language framework. </FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in \
0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>There \
were two major problems in the Lilypond software for me in engraving these piano \
pieces:</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times \
New Roman" size=3>Problem 1: Slurs and ties cannot be properly implemented in many \
cases. I have attached a small Lilypond file that demonstrates the problems I have \
encountered. These measures are cut from the various songs I tried.</FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>1.) \
Slurs and ties can’t be tied to different voices (Measures 1 and 2).</FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>2.) \
Ties that defy normal engraving. (Measure 3). This measure was copied directly from a \
song where the tie from the b arched upwards. Here is arches downwards.</FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>3.) \
Ties clashing with other engraving. (Measures 4 and 5).</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal \
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>4.) Ties don’t carry \
into a second part of your repeat volta structure (Measure 6 and 8)</FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New \
Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in \
0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Problem 2: Lack of control over measure \
length and layout. Many piano pieces are laid out so that a repeat-volta structure \
ends at the end of a page to eliminate page turning. This may necessitate some \
stretching or compressing in other measures to achieve this. This results in a more \
aesthetic and more playable (eliminating page turning) engraving. There needs to be a \
way to easily set the number of measures per page and per line to achieve \
this.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT \
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal \
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Good luck on \
your software.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P \
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New \
Roman"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: \
yes">Kurt</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
--0-1207977361-1120102457=:72370--
["SlursandTieProblems.ly" (text/lilypond-source)]
\version "2.5.25"
\header {
title = "Slur and Tie Problems"
footer = "Mutopia-2004/02/03-263"
} % end header
mkinvis = { \override NoteHead
#'transparent = ##t
\override Stem
#'transparent = ##t }
mkvis = { \revert NoteHead #'transparent
\revert Stem #'transparent }
top = \relative c' {
\override Voice.TextScript #'padding = #2
\key bes \major
\time 4/4
\clef treble
\override Staff.NoteCollision #'merge-differently-headed = ##t
s2 s8 c8( des8 d8 | %1
<<
{ees8 c'8 ees,8 f8 ~ f8 aes8 bes8 c8) |} \\ %2
{c,4. des8 ~ des4 fes4 |} %2
>>
<bes, ees g>2 ~ <bes ees g>4 <des ees bes'>4 | %3
<<
{bes'1 |} \\ %4
{s4 \stemUp <bes f'>8 bes' <bes, e> bes' <bes, ees> bes' |} \\ %108
{\stemDown d,,4
\set followVoice = ##t
\change Staff= bottom
\stemUp aes'4 (g4 ges4)}
>>
<bes d bes'>4 r4 <bes d f bes>^> r4_\markup{\italic { Fine}} | %5
\repeat volta 2 { %Stanza B
<cis, g'>2 <c d fis a>8 <c d fis a>4 <b d g>8 ~ | %6
} \alternative {
{<b d g>4 <d' d'>8 <d d'>8 <d d'>4 <d eis b'>4 | } %7
{<b, d g>4 ~ <b d g>4 ~ <b d g>16
g'16 a16 b16 | } %8
}
\bar "|."
} % end top
bottom = \relative c {
\key bes\major
\time 4/4
\clef bass
s2 s8 r8 r4 | %1
<aes ees'>4 <des aes'>4 ~ <des aes'>4 <des aes'>4 | %2
ees,8(g8 bes8 ees8) bes4(g4) | %3
<<{ <bes' bes,>1 ~ \tieDown | %4
\stemDown <bes bes,>4 r4
\stemUp <bes, bes,>4^> r4 | } %5
\\{
f'4 s4 s4 s4 | %4
\stemUp f'4 s4
\set followVoice = ##t
\change Staff= top
\stemDown bes4 s4 |} %5
>>
\repeat volta 2 { %Stanza B
<a, a,>4 <e e,>4 <d d,>2 %6
} \alternative {
{<g g,>4 r4 <b b,>4 <gis gis,>4 |} %7
{<g g,>4 d4 e4 | } %8
}
\bar "|."
} % end bottom
\score {
\context PianoStaff <<
\context Staff = "top"
\top
\context Staff = "bottom"
\bottom
>>
\midi { \tempo 4 = 80 }
\layout {
textheight = 240.\mm
}
} % end score
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