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List: kwin
Subject: Re: Review Request 108400: Improve highlighted contrast in thumbnail tabbox
From: Thomas_Lübking <thomas.luebking () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-01-14 14:43:20
Message-ID: 20130114144320.19635.91914 () vidsolbach ! de
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> On Jan. 14, 2013, 7:59 a.m., Thomas Lübking wrote:
> > my 2c only:
> >
> > if air has an unnotable *highlight* frame this should be fixed in the theme.
> > if it is not fixable in the theme because the focus is on a mostly light and \
> > "airy" appearance i would frankly raise the question of usability in some \
> > contexts and esp. for qml fall back to an osd look (unstyled effect frames) for \
> > the default implementations (which can easily be replaced by the plasma \
> > components one if the user wants to)
> > hardcoding a certain look in a theme using qml to fix a specific (even the \
> > default) theme is imo definitively wrong. consider a theme with edgy corners or a \
> > dark one with a contrasting highlight color (not tested but there's some ghost \
> > theme or so i'd inspect before adding such patch) where the hardcoded workaround \
> > might then miserably fail :-(
>
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> I have to agree with Thomas here. In additon I have a few questions:
> * how does it looks like with other themes? Is the highlight color a required \
> element? Are the themes prepared for it?
> * what about the other switchers? Are they suffering the same problem or is the \
> highlight there better?
> Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> I agree in principle as well. The switcher does use an unfortunate combination, \
> however, with its grey solid background. "hover" on top of this is almost \
> indistinguishable from the background though. It works a lot better with \
> translucent framesvgs behind and a darker wallpaper (in the taskbar, in krunner for \
> example).
> Note that I've also tried using PlasmaComponents.Highlight (which semantically \
> seems even more correct), but that's using the same theme elements.
> I've used a few other themes, Oxygen, Slim Glow especially. theme.highlightColor is \
> defined in all of them (and it has been a mandatory color from the beginning, so we \
> can safely assume it's defined and sensible -- it's used in other places as well, \
> so would quickly stick out). The only issue I've seen with some themes is that the \
> rounding of the corners of the theme is not reflected when using my patch, one \
> could maybe use the margins as hint here. It's a fairly minor thing, anyway. In all \
> themes I've tried, the highlighted window was much easier to spot, using the \
> switcher was much faster and needed less mental attention.
> I've gone through the other switchers in my kwin install. Some show the same \
> problems, others not to such a degree due to other circumstances:
> - informative: slightly better, icon highlighting helps, also easier to scan \
> vertical list
> - {large,small} icons: slightly better, frame contrasts with "more uniform icons", \
> could definitely be improved
> - windowstick: similar problems
> - compact view: slightly better since text is made bold for highlighted items
> - grid: same problem
> - text icon: same problem
> - flipswitch, coverswitch: no problem
>
> In the end, the lack of contrast for me is only a problem in the window switcher, \
> other UI bits where this problem could arise do not suffer from it to that degree. \
> I'd recomment to not just look at this patch, but try it, since it makes quite a \
> difference in usage.
> Would it be possible to use a translucent framesvg in the background, so we get \
> some extra contrast from underlying "stuff"?
> Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> there shouldn't be a difference in contrast compared to e.g. KRunner. That the \
> TabBox is using an opaque theme is a bug Thomas is working on (see review \
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/107983/ ).
I've checked some themes[1] and except "spoons" (very old version, no idea whether \
ivan ever updated it), "opaquity" and the "new air" (even the old air) they all \
sufficiently highlight the selected window.
Reg. the translucency:
i'm not a big tabbox user, but there seems to be two stacked frames here (forming the \
background plate), the lower one seems completely transparent but blurred when \
blurring is enabled and the upper one does not seem to be ARGB. Also i'm no way sure \
that the mentione fix will help for kwin (kwindowsystem signals to kwin ... i only \
got kselectionwatcher instantiated after the eventloop is up working so far, but \
didn't test the patched kwindowsystem from inside kwin -> gonna) All in all and from \
a non tabbox expert, it's *looks* somehow wrong in general :-\
[1] Androbit, Ghost, T-remix-black, Tibanna, OpenSuSE, Oxygen, Product, SlimGlow \
(pretty old version on my HDD, no idea about updates)
- Thomas
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/#review25425
-----------------------------------------------------------
On Jan. 14, 2013, 8:08 a.m., Sebastian Kügler wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated Jan. 14, 2013, 8:08 a.m.)
>
>
> Review request for kwin and Plasma.
>
>
> Description
> -------
>
> Improve highlighted contrast in thumbnail tabbox
>
> Air's hovered svg provides only a thin frame around the borders, too
> little to quickly spot the highlighted item when the whole widget is
> only around for a few milliseconds (as is usual with the tabbox).
>
> This patch paints a rectangle with rounded corners behind the
> highlighted item instead, making it much easier to spot the currently
> highlighted item.
>
> Aimed for master and KDE/4.10.
>
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> kwin/tabbox/qml/clients/thumbnails/contents/ui/main.qml \
> 4c33703d54c84fd54da94f821234e4cbd9c1c001
> Diff: http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/diff/
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
> Tested with Air, Oxygen and Slim Glow, all work as expected, all show contrast \
> improvements, while still looking beautiful. :)
>
> File Attachments
> ----------------
>
> before, try spotting the highlighted item
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/14/kwin-tabbox-contrast-before.png
> after, much easier to find
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/14/kwin-tabbox-contrast-after.png
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sebastian Kügler
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/">http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/</a>
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<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On January 14th, 2013, 7:59 a.m. UTC, <b>Thomas \
Lübking</b> wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid \
#d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">my 2c only:
if air has an unnotable *highlight* frame this should be fixed in the theme.
if it is not fixable in the theme because the focus is on a mostly light and \
"airy" appearance i would frankly raise the question of usability in some \
contexts and esp. for qml fall back to an osd look (unstyled effect frames) for the \
default implementations (which can easily be replaced by the plasma components one if \
the user wants to)
hardcoding a certain look in a theme using qml to fix a specific (even the default) \
theme is imo definitively wrong. consider a theme with edgy corners or a dark one \
with a contrasting highlight color (not tested but there's some ghost theme or so \
i'd inspect before adding such patch) where the hardcoded workaround might then \
miserably fail :-(</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On January 14th, 2013, 8:07 a.m. UTC, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I have to agree with \
Thomas here. In additon I have a few questions:
* how does it looks like with other themes? Is the highlight color a required \
element? Are the themes prepared for it?
* what about the other switchers? Are they suffering the same problem or is the \
highlight there better?</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On January 14th, 2013, 2:11 p.m. UTC, <b>Sebastian Kügler</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I agree in principle as \
well. The switcher does use an unfortunate combination, however, with its grey solid \
background. "hover" on top of this is almost indistinguishable from the \
background though. It works a lot better with translucent framesvgs behind and a \
darker wallpaper (in the taskbar, in krunner for example).
Note that I've also tried using PlasmaComponents.Highlight (which semantically \
seems even more correct), but that's using the same theme elements.
I've used a few other themes, Oxygen, Slim Glow especially. theme.highlightColor \
is defined in all of them (and it has been a mandatory color from the beginning, so \
we can safely assume it's defined and sensible -- it's used in other places \
as well, so would quickly stick out). The only issue I've seen with some themes \
is that the rounding of the corners of the theme is not reflected when using my \
patch, one could maybe use the margins as hint here. It's a fairly minor thing, \
anyway. In all themes I've tried, the highlighted window was much easier to spot, \
using the switcher was much faster and needed less mental attention.
I've gone through the other switchers in my kwin install. Some show the same \
problems, others not to such a degree due to other circumstances:
- informative: slightly better, icon highlighting helps, also easier to scan vertical \
list
- {large,small} icons: slightly better, frame contrasts with "more uniform \
icons", could definitely be improved
- windowstick: similar problems
- compact view: slightly better since text is made bold for highlighted items
- grid: same problem
- text icon: same problem
- flipswitch, coverswitch: no problem
In the end, the lack of contrast for me is only a problem in the window switcher, \
other UI bits where this problem could arise do not suffer from it to that degree. \
I'd recomment to not just look at this patch, but try it, since it makes quite a \
difference in usage.
Would it be possible to use a translucent framesvg in the background, so we get some \
extra contrast from underlying "stuff"?</pre> </blockquote>
<p>On January 14th, 2013, 2:22 p.m. UTC, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">there shouldn't be a \
difference in contrast compared to e.g. KRunner. That the TabBox is using an opaque \
theme is a bug Thomas is working on (see review \
http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/107983/ ).</pre> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I've checked some \
themes[1] and except "spoons" (very old version, no idea whether ivan ever \
updated it), "opaquity" and the "new air" (even the old air) they \
all sufficiently highlight the selected window.
Reg. the translucency:
i'm not a big tabbox user, but there seems to be two stacked frames here (forming \
the background plate), the lower one seems completely transparent but blurred when \
blurring is enabled and the upper one does not seem to be ARGB. Also i'm no way \
sure that the mentione fix will help for kwin (kwindowsystem signals to kwin ... i \
only got kselectionwatcher instantiated after the eventloop is up working so far, but \
didn't test the patched kwindowsystem from inside kwin -> gonna) All in all \
and from a non tabbox expert, it's *looks* somehow wrong in general :-\
[1] Androbit, Ghost, T-remix-black, Tibanna, OpenSuSE, Oxygen, Product, SlimGlow \
(pretty old version on my HDD, no idea about updates)</pre> <br />
<p>- Thomas</p>
<br />
<p>On January 14th, 2013, 8:08 a.m. UTC, Sebastian Kügler wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="8" \
style="background-image: \
url('http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/static/rb/images/review_request_box_top_bg.ab6f3b1072c9.png'); \
background-position: left top; background-repeat: repeat-x; border: 1px black \
solid;"> <tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for kwin and Plasma.</div>
<div>By Sebastian Kügler.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated Jan. 14, 2013, 8:08 a.m.</i></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">Improve highlighted contrast in thumbnail tabbox
Air's hovered svg provides only a thin frame around the borders, too
little to quickly spot the highlighted item when the whole widget is
only around for a few milliseconds (as is usual with the tabbox).
This patch paints a rectangle with rounded corners behind the
highlighted item instead, making it much easier to spot the currently
highlighted item.
Aimed for master and KDE/4.10.</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;">Tested with Air, Oxygen and Slim Glow, all work as expected, all show \
contrast improvements, while still looking beautiful. :)</pre> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>kwin/tabbox/qml/clients/thumbnails/contents/ui/main.qml <span style="color: \
grey">(4c33703d54c84fd54da94f821234e4cbd9c1c001)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108400/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">File Attachments \
</h1>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/14/kwin-tabbox-contrast-before.png">before, \
try spotting the highlighted item</a></li>
<li><a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/14/kwin-tabbox-contrast-after.png"> \
after, much easier to find</a></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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