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List:       kwin
Subject:    Re: ideas to potentially share some effort
From:       Martin =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= <kde () martin-graesslin ! com>
Date:       2010-12-15 5:56:17
Message-ID: 1292392577.10052.2.camel () Nokia-N900-51-1
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----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
> Hi Martin,
> Thanks for the answers,
> 
> 2010/12/14 Martin Gräßlin <kde@martin-graesslin.com>:
> > > 1. What I'd like to get from you
> > > 
> > > Do you have a good device / driver blacklist/whitelist ?
> > No we don't have a blacklist or 4.5 would not have been so painful. We
> > nowadays have a platform detection [1] which could be of help for you.
> 
> Thanks, but it seems that you're getting the graphics card info from
> glGetString which requires to have a OpenGL context in the first
> place. In our experience, crashy drivers may crash already when
> creating a OpenGL context, so we need to find another way. I think we
> can query X directly for that.
Yes, a real pain. KWin detects crashes while getting the GLContext and will not allow to activate \
compositing again. That's something that could work for you too.
> 
> > > We're
> > > currently not enabling hardware acceleration by default in Firefox 4
> > > on X11 because we're scared of the status of drivers (and being a
> > > browser, we shouldn't risk crashing).
> > I'd recommend to just enable it by default. The crashes and problems
> > in the driver stack will never get fixed if apps don't demand the
> > functionality. Firefox 4 will go into the next distro round which will
> > require more OpenGL functionality. Both GNOME Shell and Unity depend
> > on OpenGL. So at least Ubuntu and Fedora will need it. In general it's
> > not your problem at all. It's the task of the distribution to bundle
> > the software in a way that it works. They have to ensure that the
> > drivers are not broken!
> 
> Unfortunately, we have to be much more conservative than that, for at
> least three reasons:
> - our users are non-technical and value 'just works' above new features
Well it's the same for us and we have activated GL by default two years ago.
> - driver bugs may include security issues.
Same for us. I always wanted to exploit the X crashes...
> - browsers actually turn crashes into DOS security issues (if e.g. JS
> may trigger the crash).
Very unlikely to happen.
> 
> > > Having a good
> > > blacklist/whitelist would allow us to turn opengl features on at
> > > least certain X11 setups.
> > If you want to go the easy way, enable for NVIDIA, disable for
> > anything else. Though that's not nice from an OpenSource developer
> > point of view.
> 
> That's what I was afraid of. Yes, the NVIDIA proprietary driver works
> for us. I guess that's better than nothing.
> 
> Cheers,
> Benoit
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> kwin@kde.org
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