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List:       kwin
Subject:    Re: Fwd: Re: [PATCH] fade out panel in desktopgrid
From:       Martin =?iso-8859-15?q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= <ubuntu () martin-graesslin ! com>
Date:       2009-02-09 20:39:30
Message-ID: 200902092139.38340.ubuntu () martin-graesslin ! com
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On Monday 09 February 2009 20:02:41 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Monday 09 February 2009 19:10:53 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > I need the panel in
> > desktop grid as it helps me to identify the desktop I am currently using
> > showing me the apps in this desktop.
>
> Just to clarify, the original problem was that the panel would be the same
> on all desktops (because it changes appearance when desktops are switched).
> So
>
> - it's useless to distinguish a certain desktop as you state
> - it's different from the actual panel you'll see on that desktop after
>   switching
I quite know these points. Nevertheless I found a useful way to use this 
inconsistency. I am able to adjust my workflows ;-) Of course that's nothing 
for avarage users.

We all agree that current behaviour sucks. We all agree that when you have set 
the option to only show tasks from current desktop the behaviour sucks. We 
unfortunately disagree about the solution. Your patch solves the problem for 
users who changed the default, but causing a regression for users who stick to 
the default or don't mind the fact that the panel is showing the wrong task 
list. I don't know what's worse. A regression is bad for user experience, 
having a blank area is imo bad for user experience, current situation is bad 
for user experience.

What I'd like to see as a solution is a config option. We have the config option 
for showing all tasks, so why not? Why not autmagically enable the "don't show 
panel feature" when setting this option. Of course this would require much 
more work. But it would be possible and wouldn't cause a regression. Btw 
that's now the second idea I came up with ;-) But I'd like the first one to 
keep the panel in it's place better.
>
>
> Zooming out mentally.
>
>
> The whole patch is so simple and the issue so seemingly minor that I'm very
> concerned about collaboration between Plasma and KWin. Long ago I wanted to
> have more interaction and integration between Plasma and KWin (and I even
> think it's critical for a good user experience). I'm not blaming anybody
> here, but it depresses me how badly that collaboration sucks right now, at
> least when done via mailinglist. I hope we can find some time to sit
> together at Akademy to sort out the most glaring issues preventing the KDE
> workspace becoming one user experience, but that's of course way too late
> for KDE 4.3, so we're looking at a timeframe of nearly a year before this
> would become visible, if at all possible.
>
>
> From a Plasma developer POV that loves KWin as well, and has even worked on
> it a bit, if an issue like this costs so much energy to tackle, I have
> little hope that for a better integration of those two components. It feels
> a bit like everything that's coming from the Plasma team is rejected by
> default and only accepted in very rare cases. That certainly makes me sad
> and is not in line with interaction in other parts of KDE. :-(
>
> We sat together here in Porto yesterday and though about what where we'd
> like to see more integration between KWin and Plasma. This thread makes me
> believe that it'll cost a lot of energy along with much frustration to
> actually get there -- and that while I know that all of us share the same
> goals and are actually very nice people.
>
> Can we all try a bit harder, please?
Personally I think "ihr macht aus einer Mücke einen Elefanten" (sorry for the 
German - please ask sebas for a translation of this phrase). We just have a 
disagreement on what's worse. I think it is OK to discuss and of course 
mailinglists sucks for discussions. You had the chance to talk about this at 
Porto - we just had IRC ;-)

and talking of it... tomorrow I'll go to join the plasma IRC channel to 
discuss options to improve dashboard with the help of kwin effects ;-) I want a 
higher integration as well.


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