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List:       kwin
Subject:    Re: [Kwin] Re: xinerama fullscreen mode problem + patch
From:       Xavier IZARD <xizard () free ! fr>
Date:       2004-03-28 19:16:39
Message-ID: 406740D7.5010109 () free ! fr
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Lubos Lunak wrote:
> On Friday 26 of March 2004 03:13, Xavier IZARD wrote:
> 
[...]
>>The problem is simple : some applications like my digital scope, like
>>xine, ... can benfit from xinerama to display one window on several
>>screens (shortcut to set the size to a predefined size for example).
>>Until KDE 3.1.5 this was perfectly possible, and there were no problem
>>even with old applications.
>>
>>The only problems with older KDE were : dialog window opening on two
>>screens (centered in the whole desktop) and fullscreen problems as
>>described in the first part of your answer.
>>These 2 problems are now solved by the new KDE code and this is good.
>>But KDE now also prevent a _normal_ window (ie not dialog, not
>>fullscreen, ...) to set his own size if it want to become larger than
>>one screen.
> 
> 
>  But those problems solved have been solved at the expense of these new 
> problems. Workarounds can never get it completely right.
> 
> 
>>Consequences of this are :
>>Applications which saves their size cannot restore it on next startup if
>>they are larger than one screen.
>>Similary, with some applications you can specify the geometry
>>(--geometry) at startup. The application can't get the required size if
>>it's larger than one screen.
>>Applications which set their own size can't become larger than one screen.
> 
> 
>  This is again against the "Ideally there should be nothing like 'is 
> handled by application' or 'app wants'" rule. Well, I know which talk I should 
> have at the next KDE conference.
> 
>  It should be the window manager to save and restore the size. Most WMs 
> actually don't do this, even KWin does it badly. I should have this for 
> KDE3.3, the save window settings option in Alt+F3 already kind of works, but 
> it's quite bad currently.
> 
>  The --geometry case unfortunately in reality cannot be really recognized, 
> because many apps specify their position as if the user requested it even if 
> it's not so, because either they're stupid, they want to forced their view of 
> things no matter what, or they try to work around broken WMs (well, at least 
> I've been told that's the reason why Qt does it too, although it's possible 
> it's one of the first two reasons as well).
> 
> 
>>If I disable the placement option, this is unusable, most windows open
>>on the left screen.
>>My idea is "xinerama placement enabled" only for window which dont want
>>to set their size / position, thus letting window to place itself inside
>>the workarea.
> 
> 
>  If I do this, then Xinerama will be still broken for those apps which are not 
> Xinerama aware, you'll get dialogs between the two monitors, you'll get 
> windows with titlebars hidden by panel placed at the top, and similar. 
> There's really no good way of differentiating between apps that set their 
> geometry and manage to do it right and those that don't manage to do it 
> right, especially because those that do it right today may not do it right 
> anymore tommorrow.
> 
Ok, I see ; there is no perfect solution.

>  Can you give let's say two specific examples why exactly would you want to 
> have xinerama settings enabled, yet have some apps disobey it? Perhaps 
> something as simple as 'save window settings' in kwin could solve this.
> 

I think some screenshots are better than long explanations, so here are 
examples :

*** first example : my digital scope :
In order to see a large part of the captured signal, I need to use 
several screens. Either I resize the application with mouse cursor, or I 
have shortcuts to set the size to predefined values. I want the size to 
be saved and restored at next startup ; but with newer KDE, my 
application can't restore the size correctly since it's forced to use 
only one screen.

Please see these images (there are 3 screens clearly identifiable by 
background images) :
http://xizard.free.fr/Desktop_with_window_on_several_screens_small.png
or http://xizard.free.fr/Desktop_with_window_on_several_screens.png

However thanks to your option 'save window settings', the size is 
restored correctly, even if it's larger than one screen.
And, for I don't know what reason, the shortcuts to set applications 
size works with this application (maybe due to your explain about Qt 
workaround above).


*** second example : --geometry with kwrite :
I launch "kwrite --geometry 3000x1000+10+10", it should use part of my 3 
screens. But since kwin detects it's larger than one screen, it places 
kwrite on the default screen an maximize it. (I must admit this is not
really usefull with kwrite but it is the same problem for all 
applications using geometry option) :
http://xizard.free.fr/Kwrite_with_geometry_option_small.png
or http://xizard.free.fr/Kwrite_with_geometry_option.png

But you are aware of this problem and it doesn't seems easy to solve.


So :
The 'save window settings' is a good compromise for me.
As for the predefined size set by application, it works with my scope 
but not with xine (in xine this is used for the fullscreen on the whole 
destktop, but this is no more a problem since this mode is now handled 
with the new option in kcontrol (patch sent in the other mail)).
And for the --geometry case, It doesn't work at all but it's seems there 
is no good solution.

Thanks for your help,
					Xavier

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