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List: kstars-devel
Subject: Re: Problems with KStars 3.5.7 on macOS
From: Robert Lancaster <rlancaste () gmail ! com>
Date: 2022-03-06 2:04:04
Message-ID: EA1592BB-C577-4797-AEC0-981C1BF7E9B0 () gmail ! com
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for the report. Ok for the issue that you identified that I was able to \
address, I think this should take care of it at least for now, which is the Help \
button. The issue appears to be that for some reason KHelpClient is not working \
properly on MacOS, which is another underlying package over which we have no control. \
I was able to confirm your error and I found that every instance where it was \
accessed the same problem occurred. I don't know why this is, but based on what I \
observed from some testing I just did on Linux to see what it is supposed to do, the \
only thing this button is supposed to do is bring up the KStars Handbook online. \
This is not very hard to do with other tools that we have in KStars, so I think the \
best solution is just to access it using one of the other tools. So I did a little \
work and this should fix the issue on MacOS while leaving the other distributions \
unchanged. I will wait to see if it causes any other issues on other systems, but it \
should not.
https://invent.kde.org/education/kstars/-/merge_requests/561/diffs \
<https://invent.kde.org/education/kstars/-/merge_requests/561/diffs>
Thank you for your feedback and helping us to improve KStars.
As Akarsh pointed out, we do tend to spend all of our time in Ekos doing \
astrophotography work, and the planetarium program part is often neglected. Yes, \
perhaps this should be addressed, but since most of the users and the developers are \
astrophotographers, Ekos tends to get all the love. Hopefully we can address that \
better.
Thanks,
Rob
> On Mar 5, 2022, at 7:56 PM, Akarsh Simha <akarshsimha@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 4:45 PM Bill Tschumy <bill@otherwise.com \
> <mailto:bill@otherwise.com>> wrote: Rob,
>
> Thanks for responding. I hated being critical because I'm sure many people have \
> worked really hard on this. But it just seems like many things aren't working as \
> I'd expect. The extra downloads are one thing. I'm also a bit surprised by the \
> identification of stars. I will hover over a star and I get "star: 4.8m". I have \
> to bring up the Info pane to see what star it is. Now maybe I can understand this \
> with stars from the USNO catalog that just have a long designation. But these are \
> Hipparcos and HD stars. Why aren't they named in the hover display and in the \
> status bar (which just says "star").
>
> This is a good point. We could definitely display HD info on stars upon hovering. I \
> think it's just something that did not occur to anyone. I don't know how / where we \
> have HIP numbers. We probably only have HIP designations for stars from Tycho 2. \
> Henry Draper is supported, but how we handle Henry-Draper numbers is complicated by \
> performance constraints.
> Also not sure how you are supposed to select things like open clusters to get more \
> information. Now sometimes I don't even get the dotted ring around the cluster and \
> I think KStars has forgotten that I've download the NGC info. Even if there is the \
> dotted ring, clicking in it doesn't seem to select the cluster. How do I bring up \
> info on this?
> Right click > Details should be what you're looking for. Also, please use the \
> Steinicke NGC/IC catalog. OpenNGC is not good as yet by any stretch of imagination. \
> It's only that Dr. Steinicke wishes that his catalog be used for non-commercial \
> uses only, which is incompatible with KStars' license. This is why we ship OpenNGC \
> with KStars and supply Steinicke NGC as an add-on.
> I'm just wondering if something is really broken on my installation (although I've \
> installed on two machines with the same result).
> Generally, we have fewer users and testing on MacOS. The primary clientele is \
> astrophotographers using Ekos on Linux. I'm one of the few serious visual observers \
> who exclusively uses KStars (and on Linux). For example, the help stuff works fine \
> on Linux for me. KNewStuff (the UI to download new catalogs) is flaky on Linux. I \
> don't know yet if the inline thumbnails work, because I've the HiPS overlay turned \
> on.
> Just so you know, I'm one of the primary authors of SkySafari so much of my \
> expectations are the result of that and other planetarium programs I've used.
>
> Thanks for a wonderful product, SkySafari is incredible. KStars tends to be aimed \
> at a different user-base and clientele. It's not surprising that basic features are \
> not user friendly, because most of our users either live inside of Ekos or inside \
> of the Observation Planner, and the basic stuff and eye-candy features don't get \
> enough testing and love. I think this is a problem we must address as a team. Also \
> we've accumulated about 3 decades of crufty code. It's only recently that Jasem has \
> taken on a very strong lead in trying to get test-cases and documentation written \
> for a lot of the features. At least now, we're reasonably confident that our core \
> calculations are valid.
>
>
> Bill
>
> > On Mar 5, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Robert Lancaster <rlancaste@gmail.com \
> > <mailto:rlancaste@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > I can't say I am a big fan of the "Download New Stuff" or "Get New Stuff" system. \
> > This isn't actually a part of KStars, it is a KDE package that KStars and other \
> > KDE apps use. It isn't a problem that is just on MacOS, it is an overall problem \
> > with that system in my opinion. But KStars developers don't have control over \
> > that code. I don't like the interface myself.
> > As for the help button, I don't know much about that one, I haven't used it \
> > before. I usually spend my time working on Plate Solving algorithms and making \
> > the astrophotography parts of the program better. But I also was the one who \
> > first ported it to work on a Mac and I maintain the Mac version. But even though \
> > I don't know about this feature, I will definitely look into it for you, that \
> > could mean something is missing in the Mac bundle or there might be a bug. Let \
> > me see.
> > I wouldn't say Kstars is flaky really, it is highly sophisticated fully automated \
> > astrophotography suite, that has allowed me and lots of other people to have many \
> > successful nights of imaging under the stars. But sometimes there are bugs and \
> > we need people to test and find the bugs so that we can work on making it better. \
> > We are all volunteer developers who contribute so that everyone can get a free \
> > and great program for taking astrophotos. So please let us know and we can look \
> > into issues like this. We especially need more people to test the MacOS \
> > versions.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > > On Mar 5, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Bill Tschumy <bill@otherwise.com \
> > > <mailto:bill@otherwise.com>> wrote:
> > > I seem to be having numerous problems with KStars 3.5.7 on Mac. I've tried it \
> > > on the latest macOS (12.2.1) as well as one two years old (10.15.7).
> > > I've tried downloading the "Extra Data", both from the Startup Wizard and from \
> > > the Data menu item. I will install something and then later, when I go back it \
> > > says it is uninstalled. Some of the larger downloads will say "Installing…" \
> > > but then al of the sudden say "Install Again". Often if I install again it \
> > > will indicate it is installed.
> > > I have downloaded the USNO stars and initially is said it was installed. \
> > > However, if I go back now it says for me to install them. Yet if I zoom in, I \
> > > do see 14th mag stars so it really is installed.
> > > I have been trying to get the inline thumbnails to install, but they never show \
> > > up in the chart. I did see them at one point while playing around, but now \
> > > they are gone.
> > > Clicking the Help button in the Configure window (shown by choosing \
> > > Preferences…) causes the app to hang.
> > > Things just seem really flakey.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bill Tschumy
> > > Otherwise -- Longmont, CO
> > > www.otherwise.com <http://www.otherwise.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Bill Tschumy
> Otherwise -- Longmont, CO
> www.otherwise.com <http://www.otherwise.com/>
>
>
>
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Bill,<div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">Thanks for the report. Ok for the issue that you \
identified that I was able to address, I think this should take care of it at least \
for now, which is the Help button. The issue appears to be that for some reason \
KHelpClient is not working properly on MacOS, which is another underlying package \
over which we have no control. I was able to confirm your error and I found \
that every instance where it was accessed the same problem occurred. I don't \
know why this is, but based on what I observed from some testing I just did on Linux \
to see what it is supposed to do, the only thing this button is supposed to do is \
bring up the KStars Handbook online. This is not very hard to do with other \
tools that we have in KStars, so I think the best solution is just to access it using \
one of the other tools. So I did a little work and this should fix the issue on \
MacOS while leaving the other distributions unchanged. I will wait to see if it \
causes any other issues on other systems, but it should not.</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class=""><a \
href="https://invent.kde.org/education/kstars/-/merge_requests/561/diffs" \
class="">https://invent.kde.org/education/kstars/-/merge_requests/561/diffs</a></div><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you for your feedback and helping us \
to improve KStars.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As Akarsh \
pointed out, we do tend to spend all of our time in Ekos doing astrophotography work, \
and the planetarium program part is often neglected. Yes, perhaps this should \
be addressed, but since most of the users and the developers are astrophotographers, \
Ekos tends to get all the love. Hopefully we can address that better.</div><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">Rob</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 5, \
2022, at 7:56 PM, Akarsh Simha <<a href="mailto:akarshsimha@gmail.com" \
class="">akarshsimha@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div \
dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 4:45 PM Bill Tschumy <<a \
href="mailto:bill@otherwise.com" class="">bill@otherwise.com</a>> wrote:<br \
class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">Rob,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class="">Thanks for responding. I hated being critical because I'm sure many \
people have worked really hard on this. But it just seems like many things \
aren't working as I'd expect. The extra downloads are one thing. I'm also \
a bit surprised by the identification of stars. I will hover over a star and I \
get "star: 4.8m". I have to bring up the Info pane to see what star it \
is. Now maybe I can understand this with stars from the USNO catalog that just \
have a long designation. But these are Hipparcos and HD stars. Why aren't \
they named in the hover display and in the status bar (which just says \
"star").</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">This is a good point. We could definitely display HD \
info on stars upon hovering. I think it's just something that did not occur to \
anyone. I don't know how / where we have HIP numbers. We probably only have HIP \
designations for stars from Tycho 2. Henry Draper is supported, but how we handle \
Henry-Draper numbers is complicated by performance constraints.<br \
class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" \
class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">Also not sure how you are supposed to \
select things like open clusters to get more information. Now sometimes I don't \
even get the dotted ring around the cluster and I think KStars has forgotten that \
I've download the NGC info. Even if there is the dotted ring, clicking in it \
doesn't seem to select the cluster. How do I bring up info on \
this?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Right \
click > Details should be what you're looking for. Also, please use the Steinicke \
NGC/IC catalog. OpenNGC is not good as yet by any stretch of imagination. It's only \
that Dr. Steinicke wishes that his catalog be used for non-commercial uses only, \
which is incompatible with KStars' license. This is why we ship OpenNGC with KStars \
and supply Steinicke NGC as an add-on.</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">I'm just wondering if \
something is really broken on my installation (although I've installed on two \
machines with the same result).</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">Generally, we have fewer users and testing on MacOS. The \
primary clientele is astrophotographers using Ekos on Linux. I'm one of the few \
serious visual observers who exclusively uses KStars (and on Linux). For example, the \
help stuff works fine on Linux for me. KNewStuff (the UI to download new catalogs) is \
flaky on Linux. I don't know yet if the inline thumbnails work, because I've the HiPS \
overlay turned on.</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" \
class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">Just so you know, I'm one of the primary \
authors of SkySafari so much of my expectations are the result of that and other \
planetarium programs I've used.</div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div \
class="">Thanks for a wonderful product, SkySafari is incredible. KStars tends to be \
aimed at a different user-base and clientele. It's not surprising that basic features \
are not user friendly, because most of our users either live inside of Ekos or inside \
of the Observation Planner, and the basic stuff and eye-candy features don't get \
enough testing and love. I think this is a problem we must address as a team. Also \
we've accumulated about 3 decades of crufty code. It's only recently that Jasem has \
taken on a very strong lead in trying to get test-cases and documentation written for \
a lot of the features. At least now, we're reasonably confident that our core \
calculations are valid.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" \
class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">Bill<br class=""><div class=""><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 5, 2022, at 4:07 PM, \
Robert Lancaster <<a href="mailto:rlancaste@gmail.com" target="_blank" \
class="">rlancaste@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div \
class="">Hi Bill,<br class=""><br class="">I can't say I am a big fan of the \
"Download New Stuff" or "Get New Stuff" system. This isn't actually a part of \
KStars, it is a KDE package that KStars and other KDE apps use. It isn't a \
problem that is just on MacOS, it is an overall problem with that system in my \
opinion. But KStars developers don't have control over that code. I don't \
like the interface myself. <br class=""><br class=""> As for the help button, I don't \
know much about that one, I haven't used it before. I usually spend my time \
working on Plate Solving algorithms and making the astrophotography parts of the \
program better. But I also was the one who first ported it to work on a Mac and \
I maintain the Mac version. But even though I don't know about this feature, I \
will definitely look into it for you, that could mean something is missing in the \
Mac bundle or there might be a bug. Let me see.<br class=""><br \
class="">I wouldn't say Kstars is flaky really, it is highly sophisticated fully \
automated astrophotography suite, that has allowed me and lots of other people to \
have many successful nights of imaging under the stars. But sometimes \
there are bugs and we need people to test and find the bugs so that we can work on \
making it better. We are all volunteer developers who contribute so that \
everyone can get a free and great program for taking astrophotos. So please let \
us know and we can look into issues like this. We especially need more people \
to test the MacOS versions.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><br \
class="">Rob<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Mar 5, \
2022, at 5:25 PM, Bill Tschumy <<a href="mailto:bill@otherwise.com" \
target="_blank" class="">bill@otherwise.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">I \
seem to be having numerous problems with KStars 3.5.7 on Mac. I've tried it on \
the latest macOS (12.2.1) as well as one two years old (10.15.7).<br class=""><br \
class="">I've tried downloading the "Extra Data", both from the Startup Wizard and \
from the Data menu item. I will install something and then later, when I go \
back it says it is uninstalled. Some of the larger downloads will say \
"Installing…" but then al of the sudden say "Install Again". Often if I \
install again it will indicate it is installed.<br class=""><br class="">I have \
downloaded the USNO stars and initially is said it was installed. However, if I \
go back now it says for me to install them. Yet if I zoom in, I do see 14th mag \
stars so it really is installed.<br class=""><br class="">I have been trying to get \
the inline thumbnails to install, but they never show up in the chart. I did \
see them at one point while playing around, but now they are gone.<br \
class=""><br class="">Clicking the Help button in the Configure window (shown by \
choosing Preferences…) causes the app to hang.<br class=""><br class="">Things just \
seem really flakey.<br class=""><br class="">Bill<br class=""><br class="">-- <br \
class="">Bill Tschumy<br class="">Otherwise -- Longmont, CO<br class=""><a \
href="http://www.otherwise.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.otherwise.com</a><br \
class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><br \
class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class=""> <div dir="auto" \
style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: \
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div \
style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: \
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: \
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: \
normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; \
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div \
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; \
border-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: \
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; \
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" \
class=""><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div \
class="">-- </div><div class="">Bill Tschumy</div><div class="">Otherwise -- \
Longmont, CO</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.otherwise.com/" target="_blank" \
class="">www.otherwise.com</a></div><div class=""><br \
class=""></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></div><br class=""> </div>
<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>
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