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List: kstars-devel
Subject: Re: Observation workflows in KStars -- looking for feedback and ideas
From: Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja () ikarustech ! com>
Date: 2020-10-31 12:30:11
Message-ID: CAE0bU5=9aEkPx1NRSUaH6+YvM2nngRdGfzgT9zx0Cd56THsmYg () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hello Akarsh,
I agree that the observing wizard is due for a revamp! The GUI itself could
reuse some design as well. With one object occupying a single row that
includes all information, including a view for Alt vs Time for EACh object
(so you can compare a few against each other). Furthermore, I think it
should also cater now to astrophotography use. For this to work, I have a
couple of ideas:
1. Filter by Band: Broadband vs Narrow band targets.
2. Filter by size: Show objects that fit within say 60% to 120% of the FOV.
So they're not too small or too big to image. Of course, this is only
applicable to extended objects with known angular resolutions.
Also, I think instead of having to use the wizard page-by-page to produce
this, these should always be accessible to filter from. So no more wizard,
but controls to filter ALL the objects. Since we're limited by memory, we
only show the first 100 or so applicable objects by default, and perhaps
this can be increased. So we can have these filters:
1. Type: Stars, Planets, Nebulae..etc
2. Band: RGB, Narrowband..etc
3. Size: arcmins steps? maybe have option for "camera FOV" as well which is
auto-calculated from INDI.
4. Region (Constellation or NSWE)
5. Magnitude
6. Altitude
7. ???
--
Best Regards,
Jasem Mutlaq
On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 4:43 AM Akarsh Simha <akarshsimha@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm just trying to get a sense of how people use the Observation Planner.
> A long time ago, the "Observation Planner" was called "Observing List" and
> just carried:
> (a) A list of objects
> (b) Ability to add notes / observation logs
> can't remember what else -- there may have been Alt vs Time
>
> But anyway, in 2009, Prakash Mohan and I worked together as part of GSoC
> to add the DSS image download feature, and the bifurcation between a
> "Session Plan" and a "Wishlist". Back then, my idea was as follows:
> 1. Whenever you come across an object that interests you, add it to your
> Wish List
> 2. Before you go out observing, plan out your observing session by
> importing the objects you wish to see from your wish list into your
> "session plan". KStars automatically assigns the upper meridian transit
> time on the night of observation (I suspect this is currently broken) as
> the observing time for each object.
> 3. Before you go out to a dark place, while you still have fast internet
> access, download any reference images you need from the DSS
> 4. On the observing field, sort the observing session plan by observation
> time. A special sorting filter sorts it from evening to morning.
> 5. Work through your objects in order.
> I have a tendency to pack my night with as many objects as I can possibly
> observe, and I imagined that the above workflow would maximize my
> efficiency.
>
> After trying this out on the field a few times, though, I found it very
> sub-par for visual observing. The reason is, it is difficult to estimate
> correctly how long it takes to observe an object. And the above is not
> robust to, let's say, losing half an hour due to dinner. Moreover, for
> those of us who observe with Dobsonians, sometimes meridian transit is a
> very inconvenient time to observe an object because of the singular motion
> of azimuth around the zenith ("Dobson's Hole" / "the Dob hole").
>
> So I later came up with the following workflow that only involves the
> "Wish List":
> 1. Whenever you come across an object that interests you, add it to your
> Wish List.
> 2. Before you go out to a dark place, while you still have fast internet
> access, download any reference images you need from the DSS
> 3. On the observing field, sort the _wish list_ by % of max. altitude
> achieved at current time, while demoting the objects that are in the hole.
> 4. At any given time, pick your favorites amongst the top 5 or 10 objects
> in the sorted list and observe it.
>
> I have found the above wishlist-based workflow exceptional for visual
> observing. So much so that I am tempted to deprecate the session plan
> workflow, but I do think:
> (a) The session plan workflow is much better suited for imaging /
> scientific observations
> (b) There might still be people out there using the session plan workflow
> so I do think we should still retain it.
>
> Now, finally, I have a few more itches to scratch with the wishlist
> workflow:
> 1. Wish list grows to unmanageable sizes very quickly.
> 2. There is no easy way of removing/demoting objects that you have already
> observed.
> 3. Plus, unlike with the session plan, there's no scope for targeted
> observing projects -- just one massive wishlist.
>
> I'm looking for other people's "itches" with these workflows, and trying
> to understand how others use the Observation Planner, if at all. I remember
> Jasem telling me it's also integrated somehow with the Ekos sequencer, so
> I'm curious to know how that works. Finally, I'm proposing the following
> changes:
>
> 1. Let the Wish List remain a massive "Wish List"
> 2. Move/replicate the "% of max. altitude" workflow into the session plan
> instead.
> 3. Provide flexible ways of selecting and adding objects from the Wish
> List into the session plan (eg: only objects in a certain constellation,
> only objects in a certain catalog, only objects matching a certain regex,
> only objects that will attain culmination tonight, only objects which are
> above a certain magnitude...)
> 4. Preserve the old workflow of "assigned times" for objects, and fix any
> bugs in it
> 5. Provide an "Observed" checkbox that will demote the object in the "% of
> max. altitude" workflow, if checked.
> 6. Provide a way of removing objects that have already been observed from
> the session plan / wishlist
>
> I believe these features will create a much smoother observation
> experience for anyone interested in using the Observation Planner for
> observing. Now, I don't have enough context on imagers' requirements, but
> if there are any allied requirements, I would be happy to incorporate them
> into a project.
>
> The plan for this project is either I will slowly do it over my weekends
> and evenings, or work with a GSoC / SoK student to achieve these goals.
> Anyone else interested is also welcome.
>
> Regards
> Akarsh
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Hello Akarsh,<div><br></div><div>I agree that the observing wizard is due for a revamp! \
The GUI itself could reuse some design as well. With one object occupying a single row that includes all \
information, including a view for Alt vs Time for EACh object (so you can compare a few against each \
other). Furthermore, I think it should also cater now to astrophotography use. For this to work, I have a \
couple of ideas:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Filter by Band: Broadband vs Narrow band \
targets.</div><div>2. Filter by size: Show objects that fit within say 60% to 120% of the FOV. So \
they're not too small or too big to image. Of course, this is only applicable to extended objects \
with known angular resolutions.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I think instead of having to use the \
wizard page-by-page to produce this, these should always be accessible to filter from. So no more wizard, \
but controls to filter ALL the objects. Since we're limited by memory, we only show the first 100 or \
so applicable objects by default, and perhaps this can be increased. So we can have these \
filters:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Type: Stars, Planets, Nebulae..etc</div><div>2. Band: RGB, \
Narrowband..etc</div><div>3. Size: arcmins steps? maybe have option for "camera FOV" as well \
which is auto-calculated from INDI.</div><div>4. Region (Constellation or NSWE)</div><div>5. \
Magnitude</div><div>6. Altitude</div><div>7. ???</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Best Regards,<br>Jasem \
Mutlaq<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 4:43 AM Akarsh Simha <<a \
href="mailto:akarshsimha@gmail.com">akarshsimha@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I'm just \
trying to get a sense of how people use the Observation Planner. A long time ago, the "Observation \
Planner" was called "Observing List" and just carried:</div><div>(a) A list of \
objects</div><div>(b) Ability to add notes / observation logs</div><div>can't remember what else -- \
there may have been Alt vs Time<br><br></div><div>But anyway, in 2009, Prakash Mohan and I worked \
together as part of GSoC to add the DSS image download feature, and the bifurcation between a \
"Session Plan" and a "Wishlist". Back then, my idea was as follows:</div><div>1. \
Whenever you come across an object that interests you, add it to your Wish List</div><div>2. Before you \
go out observing, plan out your observing session by importing the objects you wish to see from your wish \
list into your "session plan". KStars automatically assigns the upper meridian transit time on \
the night of observation (I suspect this is currently broken) as the observing time for each \
object.</div><div>3. Before you go out to a dark place, while you still have fast internet access, \
download any reference images you need from the DSS</div><div>4. On the observing field, sort the \
observing session plan by observation time. A special sorting filter sorts it from evening to \
morning.</div><div>5. Work through your objects in order.</div><div> I have a tendency to pack my night \
with as many objects as I can possibly observe, and I imagined that the above workflow would maximize my \
efficiency.<br></div><div><br></div><div>After trying this out on the field a few times, though, I found \
it very sub-par for visual observing. The reason is, it is difficult to estimate correctly how long it \
takes to observe an object. And the above is not robust to, let's say, losing half an hour due to \
dinner. Moreover, for those of us who observe with Dobsonians, sometimes meridian transit is a very \
inconvenient time to observe an object because of the singular motion of azimuth around the zenith \
("Dobson's Hole" / "the Dob hole").<br></div><div><br></div><div>So I later came \
up with the following workflow that only involves the "Wish List":<br></div><div>1. Whenever \
you come across an object that interests you, add it to your Wish List.</div><div>2. Before you go out to \
a dark place, while you still have fast internet access, download any reference images you need from the \
DSS</div><div>3. On the observing field, sort the _wish list_ by % of max. altitude achieved at current \
time, while demoting the objects that are in the hole.</div><div>4. At any given time, pick your \
favorites amongst the top 5 or 10 objects in the sorted list and observe it.</div><div><br></div><div>I \
have found the above wishlist-based workflow exceptional for visual observing. So much so that I am \
tempted to deprecate the session plan workflow, but I do think:</div><div>(a) The session plan workflow \
is much better suited for imaging / scientific observations</div><div>(b) There might still be people out \
there using the session plan workflow</div><div>so I do think we should still retain \
it.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, finally, I have a few more itches to scratch with the wishlist \
workflow:</div><div>1. Wish list grows to unmanageable sizes very quickly.</div><div>2. There is no easy \
way of removing/demoting objects that you have already observed.</div><div>3. Plus, unlike with the \
session plan, there's no scope for targeted observing projects -- just one massive \
wishlist.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm looking for other people's "itches" with these \
workflows, and trying to understand how others use the Observation Planner, if at all. I remember Jasem \
telling me it's also integrated somehow with the Ekos sequencer, so I'm curious to know how that \
works. Finally, I'm proposing the following changes:<br><br></div><div>1. Let the Wish List remain a \
massive "Wish List"<br></div><div>2. Move/replicate the "% of max. altitude" workflow \
into the session plan instead.<br></div><div>3. Provide flexible ways of selecting and adding objects \
from the Wish List into the session plan (eg: only objects in a certain constellation, only objects in a \
certain catalog, only objects matching a certain regex, only objects that will attain culmination \
tonight, only objects which are above a certain magnitude...)</div><div>4. Preserve the old workflow of \
"assigned times" for objects, and fix any bugs in it</div><div>5. Provide an \
"Observed" checkbox that will demote the object in the "% of max. altitude" workflow, \
if checked.</div><div>6. Provide a way of removing objects that have already been observed from the \
session plan / wishlist</div><div><br></div><div>I believe these features will create a much smoother \
observation experience for anyone interested in using the Observation Planner for observing. Now, I \
don't have enough context on imagers' requirements, but if there are any allied requirements, I \
would be happy to incorporate them into a project.</div><div><br></div><div>The plan for this project is \
either I will slowly do it over my weekends and evenings, or work with a GSoC / SoK student to achieve \
these goals. Anyone else interested is also \
welcome.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>Akarsh<br></div><div><br></div></div> \
</blockquote></div>
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