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List: kstars-devel
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
From: John S. <myxlflik () hotmail ! com>
Date: 2017-04-18 19:01:02
Message-ID: BLUPR14MB0259F959EFFB4C5A3899C64BC7190 () BLUPR14MB0259 ! namprd14 ! prod ! outlook ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
Jasem,
You can use my last name (Sadler) for the credit on the packages. I played=
around with the data some more and have gotten a few images to come out ac=
ceptably, but most of completely out of balance when you convert them to RG=
B. I think I found out why. One of my underlying assumptions about the DS=
S data appears to be incorrect. Although the original DSS survey is monoch=
rome, it does not appear to be filtered. It appears to be visible light. =
Obviously when you assign full spectrum to one channel it's going to play a=
ll kinds of havok with the balance of the channels. I am not certain if th=
ere is a practical way to deal with the data, but perhaps a 'green' channel=
can be extracted by subtracting the red and blue channels from the DSS gre=
en channel. This all would require significant effort but may yield result=
s and be worthwhile if we can find a way to do it in a batch manner. I can=
certainly pull all three channels separately and start playing to see if I=
get any kind of real results. I will let you know what I find out.
John
________________________________
From: John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 9:27 AM
To: Jasem Mutlaq; KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
Great. I am continuing to tweak and play with settings on the object pulls=
to see if I can get better data. The problem I think is that they don't h=
ave a setting to adjust the levels and it seems like the blue channel is to=
o weak overall to make for a proper color balance. The last thing I want t=
o do here is manually adjust 13000 images. Even with a batch process it fe=
els like a lot of effort. I will keep you posted as to what I find. I wil=
l start 'versioning' the tarball files as I change them so that you will kn=
ow if it's newer than what you have now.
________________________________
From: Kstars-devel <kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on behalf of Jasem Mutlaq=
<mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:13 AM
To: KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
Yup we can publish an updated version if we get better data
On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:59 PM, John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlf=
lik@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Oh wow. I thought you wanted to try to work on them some more. Assuming w=
e can get better images for this, what will the process be to update this =
now that it is incorporated? Just publish a new version and have them down=
load it via that data downloads in Kstars?
________________________________
From: Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com<mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>=
>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 4:38 AM
To: John S.
Cc: Hans; KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
I just added them to KStars. I used your name "John S." and email address. =
Please let me know if you want to change any of those as they appear in the=
download dialog. I'll try to add previews as well since we do not have pre=
views for _any_ download before.
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlf=
lik@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Did anyone have any further input on this? Is it worth pursuing and adding=
to Kstars?
________________________________
From: John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Hans
Cc: KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
Here is a link to the current NGC file tarball and the rudimentary install =
and removal scripts. This has only been tested on Linux Mint, but suspect =
it will be fine on all versions:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviEYxBIM2pNlmuc6
Here is a link to the current IC file tarball. Same caveats as the NGC fil=
e:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ
The images are all of the DSS2R (Red Plate) survey only. There is an abili=
ty to pull data into RGB using the DSS2R, DSS and DSS2B surveys (or really =
any other combination for that matter). I have found that in nearly all ca=
ses, the colors needed subsequent adjustment in order to make the images lo=
ok palatable. I honestly felt the red channel ones and gray scale worked o=
ut just find overall. I know there are some outright bad images in there a=
nd I haven't had the time or inclination to weed through the 13,000 objects=
I pulled to clean it up as of yet. I can certainly do it, but it would la=
rgely depend on how strongly this group felt about it's inclusion. I agree=
it should be an add-on package and not part of the base install. We will =
need to make sure to credit the sources of the images as well.
One thing we may need to consider is directory management. Downloading all=
of these images puts 13,000+ files in the $HOME/.local/share/kstars direct=
ory. That's a pretty good chunk of files for a single directory. I may ma=
ke sense to compile these into some sort of database file or put them in a =
directory structure. I am not a developer though and have NO skill when it=
comes to that aspect of this project.
John
________________________________
From: John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:15 AM
To: Hans
Cc: KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
I started this project for my own personal gratification. I personally don'=
t mind that some of the objects are subpar quality. Most of those objects a=
re very interesting to me anyway. However, I would like to make sure that i=
t meets certain quality levels. I am open to input for how to rectify the s=
ituation. I believe the limits of the survey itself will limit the outlet q=
uality though. If you want I'll post the links to the two tarballs for the =
NGC and IC objects and you can download them a try for yourself.
John
> On Apr 15, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Hans <hans@lambermont.dyndns.org<mailto:hans=
@lambermont.dyndns.org>> wrote:
>
> Agreed, this is something very nice to have. And it is tedious work too. =
For
> images that don't look too good I expect we'll even get negative remarks,=
but
> that should not inhibit this project. To me having a skimpy image is far =
better
> than no image at all.
>
> Is the idea to have an image library or to dynamically download them on d=
emand ?
>
> -- Hans
>
> Jasem Mutlaq wrote on 20170415:
>
>> I'm attaching a few examples so you can see why we can't use them as is =
in
>> KStars.
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Akarsh Simha <akarshsimha@gmail.com<ma=
ilto:akarshsimha@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> This is something very nice to have!
>>>
>>> A caveat to consider is the licensing for DSS imagery. They are not
>>> available for commercial use, so we must ship this as an add-on through
>>> KNewStuff ("Get New Data")
>>>
>>> Other sources of images are SDSS, the Hubble Legacy Archive (hla.stsci.=
edu<http://hla.stsci.edu>)
>>> and the recently released PanStarrs 1 survey. I think the PanStarrs 1
>>> survey has a large sky coverage (possibly even all sky -- I haven't
>>> checked). SDSS has a somewhat small footprint, and the Hubble only has
>>> objects of interest.
>>>
>>> I didn't quite get what the problem involved is. The DSS is made from
>>> digitizing scanned plates mostly from the Palomar Observatory and UKSTU
>>> telescope. The result is that many plates have artefacts, and they are
>>> completely uncalibrated. Planetary nebulae and bright emission nebulae =
tend
>>> to be overexposed. There is no way around these problems other than goi=
ng
>>> to other surveys.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Akarsh
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Jasem Mutlaq
>
>
>
>
>
--
Best Regards,
Jasem Mutlaq
--
Best Regards,
Jasem Mutlaq
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<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" \
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"> \
<p>Jasem,</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>You can use my last name (Sadler) for the credit on the packages. I played around with the data \
some more and have gotten a few images to come out acceptably, but most of completely out of balance when \
you convert them to RGB. I think I found out why. One of my underlying assumptions about the \
DSS data appears to be incorrect. Although the original DSS survey is monochrome, it does not \
appear to be filtered. It appears to be visible light. Obviously when you assign full \
spectrum to one channel it's going to play all kinds of havok with the balance of the channels. I \
am not certain if there is a practical way to deal with the data, but perhaps a 'green' channel can be \
extracted by subtracting the red and blue channels from the DSS green channel. This all would \
require significant effort but may yield results and be worthwhile if we can find a way to do it in a \
batch manner. I can certainly pull all three channels separately and start playing to see if I get \
any kind of real results. I will let you know what I find out.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" \
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 18, \
2017 9:27 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Jasem Mutlaq; KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; color:#000000; \
font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Great. I am continuing to tweak and play with \
settings on the object pulls to see if I can get better data. The problem I think is that they \
don't have a setting to adjust the levels and it seems like the blue channel is too weak overall to make \
for a proper color balance. The last thing I want to do here is manually adjust 13000 \
images. Even with a batch process it feels like a lot of effort. I will keep you posted as to \
what I find. I will start 'versioning' the tarball files as I change them so that you will know if \
it's newer than what you have now.<br> </p>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" \
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Kstars-devel <kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on behalf of Jasem Mutlaq \
<mutlaqja@ikarustech.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Yup we can publish an updated version if we get better data</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 2:59 PM, John S. <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="m_7160945877431352804divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; color:#000000; \
font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Oh wow. I thought you wanted to try to work on \
them some more. Assuming we can get better images for this, what will the process be to \
update this now that it is incorporated? Just publish a new version and have them download it via \
that data downloads in Kstars?<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="m_7160945877431352804divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, \
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Jasem Mutlaq <<a href="mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com" \
target="_blank">mutlaqja@ikarustech.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 18, 2017 4:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John S.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hans; KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I just added them to KStars. I used your name "John S." and email address. \
Please let me know if you want to change any of those as they appear in the download dialog. I'll try to \
add previews as well since we do not have previews for _any_ download before.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John S. <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; \
color:#000000; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Did anyone have any further input on \
this? Is it worth pursuing and adding to Kstars?<br> </p>
<div class="m_7160945877431352804hm m_7160945877431352804HOEnZb"></div>
<p></p>
<div class="m_7160945877431352804hm m_7160945877431352804HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div class="m_7160945877431352804hm m_7160945877431352804HOEnZb">
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
</div>
<div id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" \
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"> <div class="m_7160945877431352804hm \
m_7160945877431352804HOEnZb"><b>From:</b> John S. <<a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" \
target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:00 AM</div>
<div>
<div class="m_7160945877431352804h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Hans<br>
<b>Cc:</b> KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NGC Thumbnails</div>
</div>
</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_7160945877431352804h5">
<div>
<div id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; \
color:#000000; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Here is a link to the current NGC file \
tarball and the rudimentary install and removal scripts. This has only been tested on Linux Mint, \
but suspect it will be fine on all versions:</p> <p><a \
href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviEYxBIM2pNlmuc6" \
class="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365OWAAutoLink" \
id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365LPlnk121453|2:odcLink" \
target="_blank">https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRt<wbr>fXviEYxBIM2pNlmuc6</a></p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>Here is a link to the current IC file tarball. Same caveats as the NGC file:</p>
<p><a href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" \
class="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365OWAAutoLink" \
id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365LPlnk131504|2:odcLink" \
target="_blank">https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRt<wbr>fXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ</a><br> </p>
<br>
<p>The images are all of the DSS2R (Red Plate) survey only. There is an ability to pull data into \
RGB using the DSS2R, DSS and DSS2B surveys (or really any other combination for that matter). I \
have found that in nearly all cases, the colors needed subsequent adjustment in order to make the images \
look palatable. I honestly felt the red channel ones and gray scale worked out just find \
overall. I know there are some outright bad images in there and I haven't had the time or \
inclination to weed through the 13,000 objects I pulled to clean it up as of yet. I can certainly \
do it, but it would largely depend on how strongly this group felt about it's inclusion. I agree it \
should be an add-on package and not part of the base install. We will need to make sure to credit \
the sources of the images as well.</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>One thing we may need to consider is directory management. Downloading all of these images puts \
13,000+ files in the $HOME/.local/share/kstars directory. That's a pretty good chunk of files \
for a single directory. I may make sense to compile these into some sort of database file or put \
them in a directory structure. I am not a developer though and have NO skill when it comes to that \
aspect of this project.</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font \
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> John S. <<a \
href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> \
Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:15 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Hans<br>
<b>Cc:</b> KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt">
<div class="m_7160945877431352804m_7936534728735227365PlainText">I started this project for my own \
personal gratification. I personally don't mind that some of the objects are subpar quality. Most of \
those objects are very interesting to me anyway. However, I would like to make sure that it meets \
certain quality levels. I am open to input for how to rectify the situation. I believe the limits of the \
survey itself will limit the outlet quality though. If you want I'll post the links to the two tarballs \
for the NGC and IC objects and you can download them a try for yourself.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
> On Apr 15, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Hans <<a href="mailto:hans@lambermont.dyndns.org" \
target="_blank">hans@lambermont.dyndns.org</a>> wrote:<br> > <br>
> Agreed, this is something very nice to have. And it is tedious work too. For<br>
> images that don't look too good I expect we'll even get negative remarks, but<br>
> that should not inhibit this project. To me having a skimpy image is far better<br>
> than no image at all.<br>
> <br>
> Is the idea to have an image library or to dynamically download them on demand ?<br>
> <br>
> -- Hans<br>
> <br>
> Jasem Mutlaq wrote on 20170415:<br>
> <br>
>> I'm attaching a few examples so you can see why we can't use them as is in<br>
>> KStars.<br>
>> <br>
>>> On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Akarsh Simha <<a href="mailto:akarshsimha@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">akarshsimha@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >>> <br>
>>> Hi<br>
>>> <br>
>>> This is something very nice to have!<br>
>>> <br>
>>> A caveat to consider is the licensing for DSS imagery. They are not<br>
>>> available for commercial use, so we must ship this as an add-on through<br>
>>> KNewStuff ("Get New Data")<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Other sources of images are SDSS, the Hubble Legacy Archive (<a href="http://hla.stsci.edu" \
target="_blank">hla.stsci.edu</a>)<br> >>> and the recently released PanStarrs 1 survey. I think \
the PanStarrs 1<br> >>> survey has a large sky coverage (possibly even all sky -- I haven't<br>
>>> checked). SDSS has a somewhat small footprint, and the Hubble only has<br>
>>> objects of interest.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I didn't quite get what the problem involved is. The DSS is made from<br>
>>> digitizing scanned plates mostly from the Palomar Observatory and UKSTU<br>
>>> telescope. The result is that many plates have artefacts, and they are<br>
>>> completely uncalibrated. Planetary nebulae and bright emission nebulae tend<br>
>>> to be overexposed. There is no way around these problems other than going<br>
>>> to other surveys.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>> Akarsh<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> -- <br>
>> Best Regards,<br>
>> Jasem Mutlaq<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_7160945877431352804gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Best Regards,<br>
Jasem Mutlaq<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Best Regards,<br>
Jasem Mutlaq<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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