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List:       kopete-devel
Subject:    Re: [kopete-devel] Glossyk 4: Default Discussion Theme?
From:       Sébastien_Laoût <slaout () linux62 ! org>
Date:       2007-04-21 15:36:25
Message-ID: 200704211736.25121.slaout () linux62 ! org
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Le samedi 21 avril 2007, Matt Rogers <mattr@kde.org> a écrit :
> I don't agree with using this as the default theme for Kopete. Here's why:
>
> - the avatars are too big. What's the focus supposed to be? The pretty
> picture the user put in there, or the actual conversation? Huge avatars
> take away from the conversation.

They are displayed at 100%.

If they were smaller, the only way to view them fullsize would be to point 
your mouse over the contact-list on a boddy icon.
Not very practical.

And compared to the default theme "Kopete", it's only using 48 pixels more. 
Not that a big deal with today's screen resolutions.
And with all the margins and paddings involved in the default Kopete themes, 
Glossyk 4 takes less than 35 horizontal pixels more (but it save a lot of 
vertical space, letting you having a more global view of the discussion 
without having to scroll too much or use a big discussion window size).

If you do not like the big avatar icons, you can hide the bar.
But the question, obviously, is "How many people like the bar, compared to how 
many people think like you?". A survey should be done to determin what 
varient to put as the default.
But remember: people can hide the avatar bar if they want to, and they can 
show it if they. The survey will only tell what to put as the default. I'm 
not against putting "No Avatar bar" as the default if most Kopete-users 
prefer that.

What I can do is a variant with 50%-sized avatars, like in the current default 
theme. Perfectly doable. But this would increase the number of variants too 
much.

I really hope Javascript will be allowed for themes in KDE 4.
This is already done in Adium, and it is pretty helpful.
Users could click the avatar-bar to hide it, or cycle 
through "Hidden", "Normal", "Mini" and this setting would be kept in cookies.
So that we divide the number of variants by 3, we get intuitive behavior (no 
need to go deep in configure dialogs/pages/tabs).

Same goes for "Compact". Hovering an heading-icon would change it to a [-] 
indicating the user can click that icon to cycle through "Normal", "Compact" 
and "Very Compact" (showing only the 16*16 icon, no contact name because it 
is already viewable in the avatar side-bar). With this feature, you could 
really "focus on the actual discussion", having only a vertical space of 
arround 20 pixels not used for the discussion.
But I haven't done "Very Compact" because it would introduce too much variants 
now.

Oh, and what's the purpose of the avatar bar?
See the person you're talking to.
And see how you're looking like in front of the other person.
A discussion is not text-only, it uses graphical smileys to convey emotions, 
for instance, and the avatars help make the conversation more "natural", 
more "face-to-face" (opposed to "I-talk-to-a-computer-screen).

> - the internal action is too hard to read. you're using black text on a
> gray background with a white border around the text as the only thing to
> make the text stand out. Internal actions are used for things like "user a
> went offline", "user a came online" and they need to be easy to read.

Ah, this is fixable.
That's true I noticed it but, I don't know why, I never fixed that.
I will use a lighter gray in the next version!

> - the rest of the theme is too flashy. Too many bevels and reflections.

Ah, I cannot say anything on it.
It's a question of personal taste.

> - good ratings and downloads from kde-look do not a default theme make.

Of course, I know.
It's only an indication (I put that argument last).

> It's a good style but I think the default style for Kopete should not be so
> flashy.

Okay.
This is your decision.
What do other Kopete developers think about this?

Anyway, I think you will use an Oxygen-based theme for Kopete in KDE 4.
Hum... I *hope* you will do so :-)
Oxygen is about a unified desktop look but also about usability of the 
artworks, which I find both important.
Have you contacted the Oxygen team yet?
And in this case, just make sure to include "Copy discussion as text without 
any glitch", it's a must-have. I can help on that. And also allow transparent 
and non-square avatars.
I would also like if the Oxygen Kopete-theme would be based on Glossyk 4. For 
instance, putting hours in front of every messages (on the right, to not make 
the interface uggly) and not only in the heading, like in the current Kopete 
theme. This is not helpful to put it in the headings: one of the main purpose 
of times is to know when the person last sent you a message if you were away. 
If it posted a message, then insisted a few minutes later... or if he just 
wrote a message 30 seconds ago and thus haven't figured out you were away for 
hours...

Best regards,
Sébastien Laoût.
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