[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Need legal advice!
From:       John Califf <jcaliff () compuzone ! net>
Date:       2000-12-28 4:55:32
[Download RAW message or body]

IMPORTANT legal issues:  please read carefully!

On Wednesday 27 December 2000 05:53 am, Werner Trobin wrote:
> Hi!
>
> As I knew that we don't have any Pantone/CMYK experts
> on KOffice-Devel I asked Lauri Watts to help us ;)
>
> On Tuesday 26 December 2000 16:08, you wrote:
> > Hi Lauri!
> >
> > I'm sure you can "enlighten" us ;)
> > I'll forward you answer to KOffice-Devel@kde.org
>
> Lenny wrote:
> > Merry kmas to you all,
> >
> > does anyone know more about patent issues concerning color separation ?
> > I think it's about Pantone (tm) and CMYK, but i cant find anything.
> > Does this affect Krayon, KIllu and if how ?
> > --
> > ~lenny();
>
> Ok, bearing in mind that I just use this stuff, and I'm neither a legal
> expert nor do I play one on IRC:
>
> Firstly, for those of you who have no clue what we're talking about re
> separations, here's a quickie tutorial I found from Corel:
>
> http://www.corel.com/partners_developers/casb/serviceb/puttogether/prepress
>/colorsep/
>
> Here's the basic issues I know of, hopefully one of them is what lenny is
> asking about:
>
> 1: Pantone stuff is WAYYYYYYY expensive, and they will never license it for
> free, or open source (I have maybe a dozen swatch books, they cost between
> $100 and $300 USD apiece - at the print shop I use, they have about 100 of
> the things.  This is big business.)
>
> 2: There's strong reason to believe Pantone patented the *algorithm* to
> convert RGB to CMYK so to print a separation, unless you start in CMYK
> colourspace to begin with, you'll have to go through that conversion. And
> you can't start in CMYK because it doesn't obviously display on an RGB
> screen (but you can PRETEND to be in CMYK which is what Photoshop does half
> the time)  You'll probably still be breaching that patent by actually
> displaying the faux CMYK image on the RGB screen ... obviously it's
> converting somewhere along the line.  Or you could work entirely in
> greyscale, which is obviously not the greatest solution.  And knowing
> Pantone, they probably have CMYK --> greyscale patented too.
>

Sorry, but Krayon has code in it do do just these translations which is GPL, 
with no mention of a PANTONE patent.  It also has a CMYK color selector 
widget specified - but not coded yet.  The algorithms to translate beween 
CMYK and all the other color modes are already coded, though, and look good.  
M. Elter would know, as he authored the kis_color module originally.  If this 
is original code or is derived from public domain or other GPL code then 
Pantone can only claim that the process itself is patented, in a more general 
sense.  There  is a difference between copyright and patent law.

The goal is to produce images based on another color format, like RGB, which 
can easily be translated into CMYK in krayon, and you can then print out or 
transfer the image data by channel which krayon can do very well.   This can 
then be used to make plates for printing or subsequent processing in dtp.

What to do?  Do we need a lawyer?

> 3: You can only get the libraries and stuff from pantone themselves, and
> they're famous for being a very unfriendly company to deal with, and very
> very fierce about protecting their copyrights/patents which goes some way
> to explaining why things like photoshop and freehand are so expensive.  To
> buy a single user license of standalone Adobe Plugin with the PMS basic
> colours + black, is about $150 US, and this can only be purchased from
> Pantone or it's approved dealers (and the dealers charge more.)
>
> Hopefully some of that is what you were after.
>
> You can find the US patents database online at www.delphion.com, but I
> couldn't make it return any results, I'm likely not searching for the right
> terms.

I also once used Pantone when doing color separations for a card and board 
game, and even used Pantone(tm) markers to color the overlays.  But color 
separations have been around for a very long time, long before Pantone.  Most 
modern offset printing is based on this technology, but color separations in 
a more general sense have been made for hundreds of years.  It's certainly 
not hight tech.  

Somebody in the Kde organization will need to tell me what to do about these 
legal issues, to avoid problems for us all.  I know there is no formal 
organization, but a decision must be made before I get heavily involved in 
coding CMYK color interfaces.  No point in doing a lot of work for nothing.  
However, I think it will work with the algorithms and engine krayon now has, 
so why pay for Pantone's libraries when we have our own?

John
_______________________________________________
Koffice-devel mailing list
Koffice-devel@master.kde.org
http://master.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/koffice-devel

[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]