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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Bugs against the Essen branch
From:       "C. Boemann" <cbo () boemann ! dk>
Date:       2010-09-23 17:42:15
Message-ID: 201009231942.16310.cbo () boemann ! dk
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On Thursday 23 September 2010 18:39:10 Pierre Stirnweiss wrote:
> > Hmmm
> > 
> > I think I can help the testers enough so that they can test both the
> > branch and trunk.  The workflow will be such that they test the branch,
> > and for the
> > bugs that they actually find, they will test trunk too.
> > 
> > For bugs in that are in both, there is no problem.  Just report it
> > against trunk, and when it is solved there it will be synced with the
> > branch and everybody is happy.
> > 
> > The problem are those bugs that exist in branch but not in trunk.  I
> > don't think NEEDMOREINFO is appropriate here because we already have all
> > the information.  LATER would make more sense since it will move to
> > something else
> > later when the branch is discontinued.  Or it will get fixed, when it
> > will be
> > resolved anyway.
> 
> This could probably work, provided that the subsequent bug triage of the
> "branch specific" bugs are taken care by the people who worked on that
> branch.
> 
> However, I have to confess a bit of an uneasy feeling lately:
> 
> For me being part of/joining a community means you become a citizen of that
> community. Every communities have explicit and/or implicit rules, which
> every citizen should apply/adhere to. Exeptions are foreseen but normally
> only in cases where it is of benefit to the whole community (well at least
> that is the theory).
> In open source communities, these rules are for the vast majority adhered
> to by "gentelman agreement" (nobody forces anyone to speak about the "KDE
> Software Compilation 4.5" instead of "KDE 4.5", one just adhere to the new
> PR rule).
> The same goes for several other rules like release schedules, code
> style,...
> 
> It seems lately that we are more and more looking to accomodate our rules
> to fit the needs of our "commercial interest" contributor:
> 
> - our release schedule does not fit with Nokia's, let's create a branch so
> they can continue to develop features.
>   Yes it's open source and nobody can force anybody to work on something he
> is not interrested in. But then, why do we bother with a release schedule
> and freeze periods,.... In my mind, those things are there because it is
> good practice in the community to try to concentrate your time and effort
> during these periods at solving problems. Nobody forces you to, but then
> again, nobody forces you to leave your seat in the bus to the old person,
> it is just something you do.
> 
> - our API does not fit a yet unreleased project of Nokia, let's pay some of
> the contributors to just change the API the way we want without having to
> clarify in detail the use case.
>   Yes, it was discussed during a sprint where everybody of the community
> was invited. However, not everybody could attend and the resulting design
> was not presented to the community at large with the grounds for changing
> the API. The changes were (if I understood properly, so correct me if I am
> wrong here) done, discussed and approved under the sponsorship of Nokia.
> Given the people involved, I have no doubt that the design is sound and
> will improve KOffice. However, the process seems to me like first class
> citizens doing stuff among themselves, which the second class citizens
> just have to accept as good face value.
> 
> - the bug reporting workflow does not fit our workflow of development in a
> separate branch during freeze, let's accomodate the bug reporting workflow.
> 
> Even if individually they all seem pretty harmless with quite a minimal
> impact on the community, the overall behaviour seems to imply that there
> are two types of citizens now: the ones who adhere to the community's
> rules and the ones who can bend the rules when it suits them. I am not
> very easy with this. It gives me more and more the feeling that KOffice is
> moving from "a community project with welcomed commercial interest
> contributions" to "a commercial interest project with welcomed community
> contribution".
> 
> I recognise the value to the project of having such a big commercial player
> like Nokia. And I am very thankfull of the contributions they have made so
> far (both in terms of code and sponsorship).
> However, I think in any community, no matter how big one's contribution to
> the community is, one should adhere to the principles of that community. I
> hope I am over-reacting/over-interpreting things, when I feel a trend to
> accomodate our rules/principles only to suit one member's agenda.
> 
> I just had to put this out of my chest, because I feel less and less at
> ease with all this.
> 
> Pierre
Hi

I can understand you feelings, and I'm pretty sure I would feel just as uneasy 
if I didn't have the inside knowledge, that Nokia and it's subcontractors 
genuinely want to be part of the community on community premises. There is no 
evil plan to be master of KOffice. I know you didn't imply that, but that is 
certainly a concern I would have had if not knowing better.

I still consider myself part of the volunteer community too. Besides being 
hired to work during daytime, I'm still working on various parts, outside the 
scope of Nokia's itches, in my spare time.

And speaking of itches. That is exactly what open source is all about. People 
coming in with specialized needs and ideas that they contribute. That is what 
Nokia has as well. It's even what those of you wanting a great kde office suite 
hasts. Because that is _your_ itch. My personal itch is just being able to do 
my personal presentations and word processing (which is btw why i made the 
video shape in my spare time).

There are probably several times where Nokia behavior is detrimental to the 
main KOffice, but I'm sure there is no ill intent, and even a huge intent to do 
what is right. Yes it was a mistake to open bugs from essen as if they were in 
trunk, but that is indeed what Inge and the other replies have tried to work 
out how to do better.

So in short, yes I understand your concern, and I thank you for voicing it in 
such a constructive way, as that is the only way to improve. I'm pretty sure, 
even convinced, that it's in Nokia interest to work with the community and not 
against it. So as I see it, it's just a matter of communicating better.

However we must also be fair and realize that Nokia is paying a lot of money 
and have their own deadlines to work against. We should just be grateful for 
the fixes, and features that come out of that, which we can use, and obviously 
require that it doesn't interfere adversely with the KOffice efforts.

best regards
Casper
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