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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: paragraph tool
From:       "Elvis Stansvik" <elvstone () gmail ! com>
Date:       2008-07-05 10:36:50
Message-ID: 751a4f870807050336h2a6262b7s6a3c151b019bc712 () mail ! gmail ! com
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2008/7/3 Thomas Zander <zander@kde.org>:
> On Thursday 3. July 2008 15:02:48 C. Boemann wrote:
>> > Yeah, I've been meaning to ask why you think that's a good idea.
>> > Specifically since we already discussed this and everyone on #koffice
>> > disagreed that it would be useful.  So why did you commit anyway, did
>>
>> you
>>
>> > make a big change since?
>>
>> Actually I've discussed this with several people on #koffice and they
>> agreed on the concept.
>
> Are we talking about the same discussion?
>
> The points where your suggestions fail are multiple; the user needs to
> manually organize more dockers and has to manually figure out which ones fit
> together and which ones don't
> With the suggestions of boudewijn to use a different size or at least a
> smaller style for the dockers, having multiple tabs will make things look bad
> since those tabs are from Qt dockers and thus will not use this smaller size.
>
> The problem that we detected earlier that its hard to make stuff look good by
> having a pre-defined ordering gets worse if you make each tool show multiple
> tabs. Especially if they get added/removed automagically on changing tool.
>
> Last; it would be weird that *tools* get the option to have multiple dockers,
> but most dock-plugins don't. So people may get confused why some tabs can be
> re-arranged and others can't.
>
> As I said, when we discussed this on IRC some weeks ago people agreed with
> these points.
> I'd summarize it as "we should design proper dialogs, not get the user to pick
> up our slack".
>
> So, can you please answer my first question?  Why do you think this is a good
> idea? :)
> I'd love to be convinced why users are in need to have 3 dockers instead of 3
> tabs in the tool-options-dialog.
>
>> > > Locally I've used that to put the current tabs of the text tool into
>> > > separate dockers. Well not quite, as I now only have a character docker
>> > > and a paragraph docker. The style lists are incorporated in these two
>> > > dockers.
>> >
>> > Separate from that, some other devs have been working on fixing some
>>
>> issues
>>
>> > with the same docker, based on the same IRC discussions :)
>>
>> No, i've talked to Aron Stansvik, and he hasn't worked on it, so was just
>> taking over :)
>
> Hmm, I'm disappointed about that :( Aron and I had a lot of design discussions
> about what the docker should look like. If he doesn't plan to do that anymore
> I'll see if I can make some time for it.

I'm really sorry. Real Life TM++ :(

I'm having trouble remembering our exact conversations about the
design, but I do think they were mostly about the issue of focus
between the style lists vs. the canvas, and not so much (at least
nothing conclusive that I can remember) about the actual layout of the
dialogs. I do remember that by the end of the discussions I suggested
that we use mouse double-click in the style lists to select a style,
in addition to an "Apply style" button at the bottom of the lists, and
that you agreed it was a good idea.

I really should start logging #koffice.

Anyway, I was glad when I heard from Casper on IRC that he'd started
working on improving the text shape options, as I simply have not had
the time.

> I believe in the design we made there which would work good for the various
> user groups we focus on.

We should all remember to recognize in the future when a discussion on
IRC goes into something noting-down-worthy, and then jot it down on
the wiki or somewhere else, or post to ML. There's too much of "but X
was agreed on IRC, how can you say Y" on this list :)

> Thanks for your efforts, looking forward to your reasons for splitting the
> dockers.

I'm not completely appalled by Caspers decision to split them, even
though the point of more dockers being confusing has some merit. But
either way, the options needs to go somewhere, and I somehow like that
paragraph and character formatting are in completely different
dockers. I think I like that seperation. But this is completely
ego-centric emotionally speaking.. Need to think about it more..

Thanks Casper for picking up my slack here.

Regards,
Elvis

PS. I changed my name to Elvis. DS.
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