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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: FOSS community, disabled users must learn to communicate
From:       "M. Fioretti" <mfioretti () mclink ! it>
Date:       2006-03-21 6:18:54
Message-ID: 20060321061854.GA4856 () mclink ! it
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On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 15:51:23 PM +1200, Thomas Zander (zander@kde.org)
wrote:

> On Monday 20 March 2006 18:39, M. Fioretti wrote:
> > First of all, the world is <strong>much</strong> bigger than
> > Massachusetts, or USA for that matter. The stories I reported show
> > that it is the majority of disabled people to still be "out of the
> > loop". Second, I explicitly criticized the attitude of the FOSS
> > <em>community</em>. Not the current <em>corporate</em> efforts to make
> > FOSS or OpenDocument accessible, which is what Groklaw reports. The
> > many, er, "aristocratic" comments on Slashdot and elsewhere just prove
> > I was right, and that when FOSS will become accessible, it probably
> > won't be thanks to some wonderful "community" of users.
> 
> I have read your article and emails again and again and the only 
> conclusion I can draw is that you seem to be under the impression that 
> for FOSS to succeed the current group of developers have to somehow 
> provide accessibility for free and have to do it soon.

No. I've never said to anybody "you *must* do this gratis for me (or
everybody else)". I am just convinced that *if* the current group of
FOSS users and advocates *are* really interested in FOSS being used
everywhere and/or becoming a usable desktop for non geek users they
must change their attitude and language. Not sticking to a vision of
software that was valid 20 years ago. Again, note the *if* part. I
don't want to force anybody. It's just the incoherence between stated
goals and actions/language/style that makes me smile (or worry,
depending from the context).

> Specifically your comment that corporate efforts to enhance FOSS is not 
> acceptable gave me this impression.

You must have read somebody else. I have *not* said anything like
that. I have said that it is wrong to confuse the "community of FOSS
users" with the corporations doing FOSS.

> I do believe you misunderstand what FOSS stands for; its not about
> getting gratis software, its about you (and all disabled users)
> having the freedom to implement or pay someone to implement those
> needed accessibility features.

I know this very well, thanks, and agree. But you must not tell it to
me, tell it to normal users, disabled or not. If you care, that
is. And I'm not saying you should. What I'm reporting is the
*objective* communication failure. The fact that you and too many
other geeks just keep repeating things like this, in the same language
that nobody else understands, with the same 20-years old
justifications, in the same closed circles. Which is a pity, because
Free SW is essential for a truly free world.

> See; the current state of affairs is that _all_ office users will have a 
> huge problem withing the year.

See above. You (you the generic FOSS enthusiast, not you personally)
must not tell it to me. I didn't write the article to have everybody
and his cousin repeat to *me* what I already knew. The fact remains
that almost nobody in the (worldwide) disabled community understands
why they should ever start listening to you in the first place. This
is the undeniable failure that worries me. *IF* (if, OK?) you care
about proving me wrong, do it by organizing an Install Fest for blind
users where you live.

> Which way of doing things is cheaper over a longer period of time,
> do you think?

I have NOTHING against corporations adding accessibility. How many
times do I have to say it? It even confirms other theories of mine
about FOSS, why should this piss me off? I am sick and tired of the
*attitude* of too many FOSS advocates (single persons, not companies)
towards everybody unable for any reason to compile something every
day.

Companies will add accessibility or whatever else to FOSS, but many
end users will keep avoiding it if they are threated like shit on any
forum where they ask help. Read the slashdot comments to see what I
mean. And (this is another of my main points in the article) this has
nothing to do with accessibility, it's just a symptom of a more
*general* problem.

Ciao,
	Marco

-- 
Marco Fioretti                    mfioretti, at the server mclink.it
Fedora Core 3 for low memory      http://www.rule-project.org/

Non si puo' campare con le idee che fanno la coda nel cervello, senza
riuscire a uscirne, altrimenti sono talmente strette che si prendono a
gomitate facendoti venire il mal di testa.	    F.F., luglio 2005.
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