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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Bug 76757 : modification of style manager
From:       p.stirnweiss_koffice () bluewin ! ch
Date:       2004-07-25 13:41:32
Message-ID: 40F7A9ED00036302 () mssbzhb-int ! msg ! bluewin ! ch
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>-- Message original --
>From: Nicolas Goutte <nicolasg@snafu.de>
>To: For developer's discussion about KOffice <koffice-devel@mail.kde.org>
>Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:52:42 +0200
>Subject: Re: Bug 76757 : modification of style manager
>Reply-To: For developer's discussion about KOffice <koffice-devel@mail.kde.org>
>
>
>On Sunday 25 July 2004 10:50, p.stirnweiss_koffice@bluewin.ch wrote:
>> >-- Message original --
>>
>> From: Nicolas Goutte <nicolasg@snafu.de>
>>
>> >To: For developer's discussion about KOffice <koffice-devel@mail.kde.org>
>> >Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:36:52 +0200
>> >Subject: Re: Bug 76757 : modification of style manager
>> >Reply-To: For developer's discussion about KOffice
>> > <koffice-devel@mail.kde.org>
>> >
>> >On Saturday 24 July 2004 19:07, p.stirnweiss_koffice@bluewin.ch wrote:
>> >> Hi, I am starting to have a look at this one.
>> >> I would like to change some stuff in the way the style manager is
>> >> organised. Let me know your opinions on these ideas (I personaly find
>>
>> them
>>
>> >> more logical, but it may not look the same to everybody):
>> >
>> >The problem of splitting dialogs is that it is only good if it is not
>done
>> >
>> >only in the stylist but also in each of the individual dialogs.
>> > (Especially
>> >
>> >for the points 2 and 3 below.)
>
>I want to add to my comment here, that it is also important, as KWord is
>
>supposed to get character styles soon and possibly the stylist dialog should
>
>be modified having this idea in mind too.

Wow, this seems to evolve way beyond my current level of understanding. I
am not sure it is Junior level anymore :). 
Anyway, I have a patch that only move the Font position to the Font effect
tab. This solve the Format/Font dialog in 800x600 all together. And make
the Style manager just a bit to big (height wise) but the buttons (OK,Cancel...)
are now reachable. I do not know if this patch is interesting if the whole
thing is going to have a face lift anyway.


>
>> >
>> >> 1. Move the Font/Position group to Font effect tab. The Font effect
>tab
>> >
>> >may
>> >
>> >> be renamed (perhaps to Font : Avanced).
>> >> This had the effect of reducing the height of the dialog. It is still
>>
>> a
>>
>> >tad
>> >
>> >> big (in 800x600) but at least the buttons OK/APPLY/CANCEL are reachable
>> >> now). This is the only thing I have tried to implement yet.
>> >
>> >Perhaps split the "font effect" tab in two, while moving the
>> > "Font/Position"
>> >
>> >group.
>>
>> I will give it a thought. On one hand, I would be for the following :
>>  - "Font" sub tab with just the font selection
>>  - "Font enphasing" (this is for the lack of a better term) with
>> underlying, striketrough and maybe capitalisation.
>>  - "Font position" would then be on its own but that would give the space
>> to go for radio buttons with "none".
>>  - "Font decoration" with colors and shadows.
>>
>> On the other hand the color property is often wanted and would be nice
>if
>> available on the first tab.
>
>But what about the font preview? It does not seem to preview everything
but
>
>only what is on the first page /except super/sub-script).
>
>However I have not any good idea about what to do with it. (Suppressing
it
>is 
>bad for the single dialog.)


Erf, seems like a catch 22. Perhaps a preview per sub tab but that might
increase clutter as opposed to what we want to achieve. Also I don't know
how easy that would be.


>
>>
>> >> 2. Create a "Paragraph flow" tab (better name welcome) that would group
>> >>
>> >> General/Next style (perhaps renamed to Style of next paragraph),
>> >> Font/Font Effect/Language and Hyphenation.
>> >
>> >No!
>> >
>> >General/Next style is at layout level (layout == paragraph formating)
>> >
>> >But font effect, language and hypenation are charcter properties.
>>
>> I did not want to move font effect, just the langage and hyphenation (I
>> was indicating the path, but I see now that it was not very clear) and
>the
>> next style.
>>
>
>> I agree that langages are not always used at the whole paragraph and can
>> be used at a word level. However, I don't agree it is a character property.
>> The minimum item you will give a langage property is a word and most of
>> the time it is set for paragraphs. In order to set it for an individual
>> word we might need to add a langage sub-menu in the format menu.
>> I would definitly not expect to find the langage setting in Fonts.
>
>But it is a character property. If you want it word-wise you cannot have
>it 
>paragraph-wise. A property can be at paragraph level or at character level.
>
>That is all. (That perhaps "font" is a bad title is perhaps another problem.)


OK. I understand the problem now. (Sorry to be a bit slow but I just started
to have a look at Koffice and programming in general). I will give a thorough
thinking (yes, with the proper fuel, I can do this :) ). I still think that
there is a way to accomodate the programming constraints and still have something
logical on the user perspective.


>
>>
>> For me hyphenation is even more belonging to paragraphs. You do not
>> hyphenate a single character. Setting the hyphenation property just for
>a
>> word works but is not very logical in a word processing environment (the
>> slightest change in margins or in the text prior to that word might make
>it
>> begining of a new line while the previous word would have to be hyphenated.
>
>Yes, I was surprised too. And it seems that for OO, it is paragraph-wise
>too. 
>(I have not checked OASIS yet.) So I do not know. I will try to look 
>further..
>
>(David?)
>
>>
>> This was my reasoning behind the paragraph flow tab (which would be at
>the
>> same level as indent...). This tab could also be added in the individual
>> paragraph setting dialog.
>>
>> As for "next style", I agree with you. It belongs to the style, not the
>> paragraph (as in individually settable).
>>
>(...)
>> >
>> >> Pierre
>
>Have a nice day!
>
>(...)
>
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