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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Bug#43832: No way to set default page to open up by default
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () planescape ! com>
Date:       2002-06-13 15:11:11
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On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 04:12:00PM +0200, NOLARD Michel wrote:
> Le Jeudi 13 Juin 2002 09:47, Emmanuel Touzery a ?crit :
> > Hello,
> > 
> > 	Personnally i'm not bothered by this screen at the beginning of koffice 
> > programs (so don't expect me to send a patch :O) ), but i think there is 
> > maybe a better solution (?).
> > 	asking the user is The Good Thing. now, do we really need to steal him the 
> > focus and force him to click on OK?
> 
> In fact, this IS the problem : some users want to get rid of this superfluous click \
> (my sister, for example), while others (like me) prefer having the choice... \
> Definitely, it is the point where work is needed ! I think that before adding \
> functionnalities, a series of usability polls should be made about KOffice...

I see it more like a wizard. I'm actually thinking of putting more pages in that
dialog if we have functionality like macro's which can 'adjust' the page with 
things like fax-templates and love-letter templates etc. 
A nice wizard that allows you to fill in your fax-default values and then gives
you a filled in page with the cursor blinking in the content area and the number
etc filled in seems like something lots of people will like.

If you don't want all that, just press enter one time seems like a very nice 
way to provide this functionality (in the future) while still 
- having a minimum of dialogs on screen in all situations
- staying consistent; a New Document will always do the same thing.
- provide a linear workflow instead of a single point where the user has to
look for a way to go in order to do what he wants to do. I.e. guide the user.
- following the styleguide.

> Another example is the "close the last document" thing : the user is working on \
> many documents, say in KWord. At some point, when the copy paste is finished, he \
> begin to close all the windows. But, if he wants to create another doc, he has to \
> create it BEFORE closing all previous opened document if he doesn't want to \
> "suffer" the loading time for KWord, as Kword will exit when final document is \
> closed. It is contra-intuitive as the user want to :
> 	- stop working on the current documents
> 	- then create a new document to work on
> But he has to :
> 	- create an empyt new document
> 	- stop working on the current documents by closing them
> 	- start working on his new doc.

Yes, I have seen the problem. You don't want the window to stay open, but you still 
want the functionality it provides.  That's an impossible situation.

We solved it by allowing a Close. This allows you to close the document, but not the
window.  Hope this is what you were after.

The bottom line is that this is due to the SDI manner of working, and it happens
with all unix applications. Also with lots of Windows applications.

> I have still another example : when a user want to edit the header or the footer, \
> he has to go to View>footer or View>header, though in Word, since many years, \
> simply double clicking in the supposed area is sufficient. I think this can be \
> solved easily... as normal user don't bother of this, but advanced user has to do \
> it quite often... and there is no option to automatically display header or \
> footer...

Well, the header/footer are actually turned on with this, so there was no room for it \
 to click on.
Hmm, perhaps this should be called differently, at least it should not be in the View
menu.
Hmm, you have an idea on where the current functionality should go?


> You see, there are lots of usability problems like these in KOffice, and I think it \
> should be something more important into developpers' minds as the user has to use \
> an application before discovering its exciting new functionnalities...

I try to keep new functionality in line with the current train of thoughts, that is \
because I believe we are going in the right direction.  But more so since the way \
things are done should only be learned one time, the rest can be logically deducted.  \
However hard people might find logical deduction, it still allows a lot lower \
learning curve then internally inconsistent GUIs have.

> > 	Attached a shot from wordXP. check out the right of the screen. maybe we 
> > could have this, that phases out after a timeout (yes, i know, koffice has 
> > more things to do before doing this kind of things :O), but just a 
> > "theoritical" possible improvement).
> > 
> > emmanuel
> 
> I hope that noone will flame you for using Microsoft as an example. I won't start \
> the fight ;-) I think it is a globally new behaviour in Windows XP and XP's \
> products. It is a good idea IMHO, but it has to be followed by a closer integration \
> of this way of thought in KDE itself : widgets especially designed for this \
> purpose,... But, if KOffice would show the way, I would be proud to be part of the \
> movement ! ;-) This a kind of new dialog system : You use the widget like if it was \
> a dialog, but there is no Ok, Cancel or Apply button, and it is docked in the \
> MainWindow. And it disappears when needed...

Actually, this has been something which is on my agenda for 3 years allready :)
I still would very much like a number of extentions in toolbars and in the way
we use them.
This would be easy to do in a toolbar. No custom-widget needed.

-- 
Thomas Zander                                           zander@planescape.com
                                                 We are what we pretend to be


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