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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: RFC on frame layout in KWord.
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () planescape ! com>
Date:       2002-05-31 20:08:32
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On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 07:22:29PM -0400, Mike McBride wrote:
> Developers and others of this list:
> 
> I personally think it is unwise to have KWord determine the frame order when 
> you move the frames around on the page (or more specifically, I think you as 
> the user should be able to overide the decision KWord makes if you want). 
> 
> I have attached to this mail a document showing an example where Kword makes a 
> text layout choice that I do not want (and is not an example which would not 
> likely happen in real life).  The page contains three frames, in two 
> framesets.  
> 
> Frame one is the only frame in the frameset.  This might be a logo, etc.  
> (Think childrens book where the first letter of the chapter is very large, or 
> has a graphical seperation between chapters).  Frames #2 and #3 are both part 
> of the second frameset.  As you can see by the document lables, I want the 
> columns in a different order.
> 
> Now I realize that I can force the situation by expanding frame #3, and 
> placing some whitspace (or causing the text to wrap around the graphic). 
> IMHO, however, this is forcing the user to "outsmart" KWord.
> 
> Do others think I am being silly (I can take it, I have a thick skin...), or 
> is there a way we can allow the user to determine for themselves the order of 
> frames......
> 
> Any comments are appreciated.

Here are the thoughts I had about frames/framesets for quite some time, 
I think the implementation should wait until after the 1.2 release.
Please just archive these thoughts or flame me :)

- when selecting a frameset (in the frame-properties or in the document
structure)  show an overlay of the name over all frames in a 75pixels font. 
(ie.  huge) Thus easily determining which frameset is which. Maybe in a 
different color per frameset.

- a preview line between frames, going from bottom right to top left 
and indicate the current flow of text easily.

- An indicator on a frame showing it has more text then it shows. This
is naturally only usefull for frames that don't automatically expand or
create new pages. In DTP mode those frames are however the most common
ones ;)   (why: its annoying to have new pages auto-created when you are 
manually creating frames)
A small '+' in blue, just outside the bottom-right part of the frame
seems like a good idea.
A small '->' in blue for frames that are not the last in a set.

- A keyboard shortcut that the user can hit while editing text and the 
frame he is editing in will split in two, allowing the user to easily 
create something like the frameset the attached png calls 'B'

- ordering the text flow through a set of frames is something that can
be done correctly automatically 99% of the time. So far I have not heard
one request for a change in the way it is done in KWord.
I remember that the sorting algoritm I wrote about a year ago was based
on a top-to-bottom/left-to-right criterea. I am wondering why that was
removed...  (as it seems to be top to bottom only now)
The automatic flowing of frames has to be done a bit more intelligently
based not only on the top-left most point but maybe just on a center point
of the frame. Some more literature/newspapers have to be looked at..
Look at the attached png; two frameset setups that are quite common. One
is impossible in KWord :)

- for the rest of the people that want to be able to flow text in non
standard ways (the 1%) I believe we can create a configure setting to not 
resort the frames of that frameset.
If the 'split frame in 2'-tool appears to not be enough (something I 
doubt), a new tool has to be created for these people to insert frames 
between existing frames instead of at the end of a frameset.

 
> PS:  If anyone remembers talking with me about this a few months ago, and we 
> changed this behavior, please let me know.  If not, it is entirely possible I 
> am going insane    :->

I told you the last point above before, yes. (so I guess you are still 'sane' :)

-- 
Thomas Zander                                           zander@planescape.com
                                                 We are what we pretend to be

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