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List:       kmail-devel
Subject:    Re: $%^#%&^@%&@% [long, rambling]
From:       Rob Walker <rob () myinternetplace ! net>
Date:       2002-02-04 16:47:42
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On Monday 04 February 2002 05:01, Ingo Klöcker wrote:

> About creation of non-existant folders, why not simply add a New_folder
> button next to the target folder selection in the config dialog. I

I have yet to believe that all users will understand what "creating a folder" 
does, why they need to do it, and that it is the first step one must do 
before reading email.  Did I have to create my "inbox" folder?  (and it 
doesn't even point to a file called "inbox")

I think that this whole UI discussion is an interesting view on who we are and 
where we come from as a whole.  It also shows that we are a bunch of smart 
people who have been pretty much set out to sea with one oar on this design 
stuff.  Only one of us has even claimed the first bit of experience with any 
I training.

We know how _we_ like things, but we are not the primary audience.  I don't 
even know who the primary audience _is_.  I don't know the goals of this app 
(kmail), who its' intended audience is, what features will be implemented, 
which ones are way too much functionality (I guess elisp interpretation is a 
bit much :-), and which ones are way under the bar (iMail seems a bit 
simplistic to me, even if not to the UI people at Apple).  

Jordan Hubbard (a friend works for him at Apple) puts it in terms of a Bicycle 
shop vs. a Nuclear power plant.  If someone is putting up a Nuclear power 
plant the next canyon over, everyone assumes that smart people are on it, and 
that they have done all of the right things, and that no mistakes will be 
made.  There are public hearings, the public is easily satisfied, and 
everyone doesn't say much.  However, let someone propose putting up a bicycle 
shop the next street over.  Everyone and their dog will have comments and 
input, and will try to push and pull the whole thing this way and that way.  
This is because a bicycle shop is easy for everyone to get their heads 
around, and everyone likes to have their voice heard.

Apply this to kmail (or knode, or any of these apps which are being worked 
on).  We all say, "hey, it is just UI stuff, I am a User, I use an Interface, 
I can do UI design work.  Anyone can."  Or something like this might be said, 
"I met some UI deisgn people one time, they had an IQ a whole 30 points lower 
than mine, so I _must_ be able to do their easy work, and faster and better, 
too."  So we don't put any actual project time into mockups, into sitting 
down with users, defining our target audience, soliciting UI feedback from 
them, watching them work with the early designs, seeing how they will work 
with the product.

We need to face a few facts.  The first one is that half of the world is below 
average.  The second one is that the people on this list are probably in the 
top 5% of everyone.  That puts all of us over 45 points away from half of our 
user base!  (That is, if you agree with me that World Domination is the goal 
here.)  Is there any surprise that we don't work the same way they do?  Do 
they even understand what a directory is?  The term has become 'folder' over 
the last few years, and now we are using 'folder' to mean 'mail file', too.

I think that all of this combines to make Open Source desktop programming work 
(KDE) very difficult and frustrating.  We don't have a usability lab.  We 
don't have people who will come in and be videotaped while using the 
application.  None of this is intentional, and I don't know where we can 
change it without a serious infusion of money 

I don't know the solution here, unless it is to release the UI work to UI 
design people, and keep the coding on the back end to smart people like you 
all.  But I don't think that this is a viable option at this point.  Since we 
don't have people who are trained on UI here, what do we do?  I don't know.  
I suppse we continue working as best we can.  :-)

> don't see the need for automatic folder creation. If the user wants to
> move messages to a folder he could simply create it at once. Why should
> folder creation be delayed? I know that procmail does it this way. But
> procmail is no GUI app.

why should the user have to even think about creating a folder?  Why do they 
need to manage folders?  I don't think users use folders, I think that they 
read emails, and store then places.  The fact that these places are folders 
is a side effect, and its' existence and interaction needs should be 
minimized.

> IMO invalid filters should simply be ignored and there should be a
> warning on program start (maybe with the buttons Ignore and Configure).
> In the filter dialog invalid filter should be marked and then the user
> can simply delete those invalid filters which he now longer needs.
> 
> I'm against your idea to add options like
> > a) Enable automatically
> > b) Ask user
> > c) Ignore
> to the filter config dialog. This will only clutter the config dialog
> with IMO unnecessary options and confuse the average user.

I find it interesting how we all like to invoke "the average user" every time 
we need to make a point.  I do it all the time.  None of us want to say, "I 
am the average user", and I bet none of us are the average user.  However, 
the closest any of us come to knowing an "AU" is our co-workers or our 
spouses, or someone who we hang out with.

rob
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