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List:       kismet-wireless
Subject:    Re: [KISMET] Help Setup
From:       Mike Kershaw <dragorn () nerv-un ! net>
Date:       2003-01-18 5:57:54
[Download RAW message or body]

There is no such thing as hiding the SSID.

It's another one of the manufacturer "security myths".  Kismet will
automatically decloak it when a client joins the network, or even gets
a weak signal.

More actively, attacks are possible to forcibly decloak a hidden network.
Kismet doesn't do any active attacks, but they do exist.

So - no.  hiding your SSID is basically worthless and offers no security
benefits.

-m

On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:57:04PM -0600, Hobbs, Jeremy wrote:
> Short Version
> Has anyone successfully figured out a way to find out what a hidden SSID
> is?
> 
> Long Version
> 	I am about to deploy wireless over the my hole company.  So fair
> the planned role out consist of about 115 APs.  In my lab I have 10 APs
> and I have played with everything from factory defaults too Cisco
> leap/peap. With the labs I have setup, this is what I have found and I
> would like someone to validate my results and answer the question above:
> 
> 
> Goal - Trying to secure a wireless network so that no one can access it.
> 
> 1. WEP is alright (and I use that word loosely) and should be turned on,
> however it can be broken fairly easy with TIME and tools like AirSnort.
> 2. Using tools like kismet & AirJack and with a little programming
> knowledge about pap/chap, you can capture all packets and then view and
> understand most data even if encrypted with WEP and a VPN. 3. Mac
> Address spoofing is extremely easy. So I find no real security there.
> 
> End result - The only way I have found to secure a network so that
> someone from the outside can not gain access is: 1. Enable WEP and VPN
> 2. Hide the SSID.  This will prevent them from being able to use tools
> like AirJack for man in the middle attacks 3. Change the SSID to
> something alpha-numeric, that is so random that you make the probability
> of someone "guessing it" or using "XP's already seen network name"
> extremely unlikely 4. Enable MAC tables with client addresses
> 
> 
> I guess this is what I am asking has anyone been successful in getting
> the ssid of a hidden network?
> ---------------------------------
> Jeremy Hobbs
> 
> 
> PS - regarding the emails below.
> (clap,clap,clap from the audience)
> Very nice reply to an otherwise ignorant accusation.
> (snaps all around)
> 
> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James D. Ivey [mailto:james@iveylaw.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: James Burns
> Cc: wireless@kismetwireless.net
> Subject: RE: [KISMET] Okay, now what? (after I find a network)
> 
> Just to clarify, I said up front that I have no intention of cracking
> into unauthorized networks.  Here's what I'm thinking....
> 
> I understand Starbuck's, Peet's and other coffee houses have wireless
> APs.  They are public (as far as I know).  Suppose I sniff one.  How do
> I get on?
> 
> I understand people are setting up public access points in parks and
> such.  I understand they are intended to provide free public access to
> the Internet.  If I sniff one, how do I know it's intended to be public
> and how do I get on?
> 
> I've thought it would be nice to set up a public access way through my
> AP to let people get on the Internet without gaining access to my LAN. 
> I haven't figured it out yet and, even if I work out the security
> issues, I worry about all my DSL bandwidth being eaten up by neighbors
> on KaZaA.  However, suppose someone in some other neighborhood I'm
> visiting did just that, how do I tell and how do I get on?
> 
> I honestly have no desire to do illegal actions.  I don't understand why
> Starbucks would set up access points in their shops and then prosecute
> anyone who uses them.
> 
> If it can't be done, it can't be done.
> 
> Thanks anyway,
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 07:08, James Burns wrote:
> 
> > You're pretty obviously telling another person who has expressed the 
> > desire to do illegal actions how to do them in a detailed form in a 
> > public forum. That makes you plainly legally responsible, and 
> > apparently not too smart. Please, don't help these people. If they 
> > really do have their own wireless network they can do some research, 
> > learn how to use their equipment, and figure it out. If they can't 
> > figure out how to connect to a network, the network is safe from their
> 
> > ignorance, likewise, the reputation of kismet users is safe as well. 
> > It's one thing to help people use kismet, another to help them break 
> > the law, actions like the below will make them both illegal.
> > 
> > James Burns
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Akash Patel [mailto:Akash@kashmoney.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:12 PM
> > To: 'James D. Ivey'; wireless@kismetwireless.net
> > Subject: RE: [KISMET] Okay, now what? (after I find a network)
> > 
> > 
> > Attaching to someone's network is illegal and you could be punished.. 
> > With that being said.. First of all if no ips are given you have to 
> > sniff ip ranges and pick a viable ip..
> > Also you have to hope they don't run any vpn software.. All our ap's
> are
> > open but require you to have a vpn client to get internet access...
> > kismet should tell you the ssid and if the ap has wep enabled or not..
> > Most easily accessible ap's are those with wep disabled.. And default
> > ssid's...
> > Also some ap's have mac addr filtering on so even if you do connect it
> > wont get you anywhere..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James D. Ivey [mailto:james@iveylaw.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:21 PM
> > To: wireless@kismetwireless.net
> > Subject: [KISMET] Okay, now what? (after I find a network)
> > 
> > Please forgive the newbie question, but I've found a number of 
> > networks on my little Zaurus.  Now, suppose hypothetically that a 
> > network is left accessible and I'm allowed to use it to get to the 
> > web, check e-mail, call Singapore on my VOIP app, etc.  How do I do 
> > that?
> > 
> > I've looked all over the kismet FAQs and tried searching for wireless 
> > basics etc. on the web, but no luck.  I do understand the basics.  I 
> > have my own AP and wep keys etc. and my Zaurus works fine on my 
> > network, so I understand the basics.  But I was hoping there was a FAQ
> 
> > of ways to get on the net when you find a network (I have no intension
> 
> > of cracking networks, I just want to be able to recognize and take 
> > advantage of an open doorway).  I've tried just turning off the wep 
> > keys and tried checking/unchecking this or that parameter -- no luck.
> > 
> > If anyone can point me toward some good resources on the topic, I'd 
> > greatly appreciate it.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Jim
> 
> -- 
> James D. Ivey <james@iveylaw.com>
> Law Offices of James D. Ivey
> 
> 
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-- 
"Dear Die-ary,
    Today I stuffed some dolls with dead rats I put in a blender.
    I'm beginning to wonder if, maybe, I really am screwed up."
                   -- Johnny C. (JtHM)


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