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List: kfm-devel
Subject: Re: Review Request 123253: dolphin: Navigate to parent folder selects child folder
From: Frank Reininghaus <frank78ac () googlemail ! com>
Date: 2016-02-11 20:03:26
Message-ID: 20160211200326.7653.56309 () mimi ! kde ! org
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> On Jan. 29, 2016, 3:24 p.m., Frank Reininghaus wrote:
> > What I still do not understand is why you want to make this change in Dolphin, \
> > and not in KUrlNavigator, as I have suggested in another comment here some time \
> > ago.
> > Your patch will make the "go up" behavior inconsistent in Dolphin and the file \
> > dialog, which is rather bad for the user experience IMHO. If you change \
> > KUrlNavigator, then everything will be consistent, and code maintenance will be \
> > easier. Moreover, the risk of subtle bugs (by the two layers of history handling \
> > which your patch introduces) will be lower.
>
> Gregor Mi wrote:
> Hi, in some earlier comments I noted that I had difficulties implementing this in \
> KUrlNavigator (can't remember why excactly, but I could look it up later).
> I share your concern with the inconsistency issue between dolphin and file dialog. \
> Right now, I see this as a lower priority because...
> 1) it was not sure if the feature was accepted at all and I wanted to present a \
> working implementation. 2) I think most non-power users won't notice the feature at \
> all. 3) In my personal experience "heavy-duty" navigating takes place in dolphin \
> but not in the file dialog. So, the lack of the feature there would not be that \
> bad.
> That said, I think it should indeed be moved to KUrlNavigator or some other shared \
> location to make the behaviour consistent, if time proves that the new behaviour is \
> good to keep.
> Frank Reininghaus wrote:
> > Hi, in some earlier comments I noted that I had difficulties implementing this in \
> > KUrlNavigator (can't remember why excactly, but I could look it up later).
>
> I looked it up. This was because there are different ways to change the behavior \
> concerning "Navigating to parent folder":
> 1. Assume that /home/user is shown in the view, then the user clicks \
> /home/user/subfolder to navigate to "subfolder", then clicks "up" to go to the home \
> folder again. Currently, the view will then show /home/user scrolled to the top, \
> but it seems that some users expect that it should be scrolled to "subfolder", and \
> "subfolder" should be the active item. Essentially, this could be achieved by \
> interpreting "go up" as "go back" if the "up" URL is that same URL that would be \
> reached by the "back" action. This would be easy to implement in KUrlNavigator.
> 2. What you want is something different: If /home/user is shown in the view, and \
> then "/" is entered in the location bar, then you want that "home" is selected. \
> This is difficult to implement in KUrlNavigator.
> Now the question is if solution 2 is really so much better than solution 1 that \
> inconsistencies and more complex code (the two different kinds of history handling \
> in KUrlNavigator and in DolphinViewConainer's m_lastUrl still look wrong to me) are \
> justified. I think I would actually find behavior 2 confusing, to be honest. For \
> example, if "/" is shown in the view, /usr is the current item, and I click "Home" \
> in the Places, and then click "Back": Currently, the original state of the "/" view \
> would be restored, i.e., /usr would still be the current item, and I think that \
> this is what would be expected from the "Back" action: go back, and show the view \
> just like it was. This is what the history is for IMHO. With your patch, however, \
> /home would be the current item in this situation. This looks wrong to me.
> > 1) it was not sure if the feature was accepted at all and I wanted to present a \
> > working implementation. 2) I think most non-power users won't notice the feature \
> > at all. 3) In my personal experience "heavy-duty" navigating takes place in \
> > dolphin but not in the file dialog. So, the lack of the feature there would not \
> > be that bad.
>
> I don't see how any of this justifies inconsistencies between the behavior of \
> Dolphin and the file dialog.
> > That said, I think it should indeed be moved to KUrlNavigator or some other \
> > shared location to make the behaviour consistent, if time proves that the new \
> > behaviour is good to keep.
>
> This might not be possible at all. Once Dolphin is released with a modified \
> behavior that adds some custom history handling on top of the one in KUrlNavigator, \
> then any future change in KUrlNavigator's behavior might interact badly with the \
> modifications in Dolphin. Note that both have different release schedules, so it \
> would not be possible to fix this situation by reverting the modifications in \
> Dolphin.
I think that I understand now what our (maybe mostly my) confusion is about. I tested \
the behavior of the Windows 7 Explorer in the mean time, and I found that there is a \
crucial difference between what it does and what you propose here.
As Heiko said in http://marc.info/?l=kde-usability&m=140273827601672&w=2 navigating \
from c:\windows\system32\drivers to c:\ will select 'windows' because it is an \
indirect parent of the previous folder, but I found that this happens **only if the \
navigation did not involve the history, i.e., it was not initiated by a 'back' or \
'forward' action**. Then the conflicts between the existing history handling (managed \
by KUrlNavigator) and your proposed feature (which is also a sort of history \
handling) that I'm worried about cannot occur.
BTW, just to show you that my worries are justified, here is a simple example that \
causes a rather odd behavior with your patch:
1. Go /usr/include (or another folder with many subfolders, make sure that the \
subfolders fill multiple pages). 2. Add a subfolder to the Places (e.g., by dragging \
it to the Places Panel). I'll take the 'c++' subfolder. 3. Press the down arrow key \
and hold it until you have scrolled down the view a few pages. I'll keep the key \
pressed until the 'X11' subfolder is the current item. 4. Click the created 'Place' \
in the panel (in my case, 'c++'). 5. Click the 'Back' button in the toolbar.
6. Now you will be in /usr/include, and the view is scrolled to the old position, \
i.e., X11 is visible, but c++ is the current item - if you press 'up', then the view \
will scroll up suddenly.
This is due to a conflict between the history handling and your feature: the scoll \
position is restored from the history, but not the current item, which is set by your \
'firstChildUrl' handling.
If you modify your feature such that it really does what Windows 7 does, then I will \
withdraw my objections :-)
I think that this should really be solved in KUrlNavigator. If it detects that a URL \
change was not a history action, such that it cannot provide view data that could be \
restored, AND the new URL is a parent of the previous URL, then it could emit a \
signal like selectParentUrl(QUrl), which Dolphin and other users of KUrlNavigator \
(such as the file dialog) could connect to.
- Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/#review91783
-----------------------------------------------------------
On Jan. 24, 2016, 4:14 p.m., Gregor Mi wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated Jan. 24, 2016, 4:14 p.m.)
>
>
> Review request for Dolphin and Emmanuel Pescosta.
>
>
> Bugs: 335616
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335616
>
>
> Repository: dolphin
>
>
> Description
> -------
>
> This is a first working implementation of the feature suggestion filed in the \
> ticket https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335616: "Dolphin: Navigate to parent \
> folder selects child folder".
> In short, this is what is does: Whenever the dolphin view is initialized to show \
> the contents of a new URL (e.g. "/home/x/test") it will be checked if the new URL \
> is a parent of the previous displayed URL (e.g. "/home/x/test/documents/aaa"). If \
> the check is successful, then the common child (in this example: \
> "/home/x/test/documents/") folder item will be selected and scrolled into view.
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> src/dolphinviewcontainer.h 62f91100e9e5d457edd6f4d927c87610335834d7
> src/dolphinviewcontainer.cpp 8fea3ba9d0bb8389d89724b9f0cd74605c0286fe
> src/tests/CMakeLists.txt 22a8b48491fa7ac88ce1b29aecb20192837dd7ea
> src/tests/urlutiltest.cpp PRE-CREATION
> src/urlutil.h PRE-CREATION
>
> Diff: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/diff/
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
> - unit test passes
> - Played around with dolphin: enter URL manually, navigate via click in the item \
> view, navigate via click in kurlnavigator, navigate with Alt+Left, Alt+Right, \
> Alt+up, Backspace
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gregor Mi
>
>
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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/</a>
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<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <p style="margin-top: 0;">On January 29th, 2016, 3:24 p.m. UTC, <b>Frank \
Reininghaus</b> wrote:</p> <blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px \
solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">What I still do not understand is why you want to make \
this change in Dolphin, and not in KUrlNavigator, as I have suggested in another \
comment here some time ago.</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Your patch will make the "go up" \
behavior inconsistent in Dolphin and the file dialog, which is rather bad for the \
user experience IMHO. If you change KUrlNavigator, then everything will be \
consistent, and code maintenance will be easier. Moreover, the risk of subtle bugs \
(by the two layers of history handling which your patch introduces) will be \
lower.</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On January 29th, 2016, 7:55 p.m. UTC, <b>Gregor Mi</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Hi, \
in some earlier comments I noted that I had difficulties implementing this in \
KUrlNavigator (can't remember why excactly, but I could look it up later).</p> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">I share your concern with the inconsistency issue between dolphin and file \
dialog. Right now, I see this as a lower priority because...</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">1) it \
was not sure if the feature was accepted at all and I wanted to present a working \
implementation. 2) I think most non-power users won't notice the feature at all.
3) In my personal experience "heavy-duty" navigating takes place in dolphin but not \
in the file dialog. So, the lack of the feature there would not be that bad. </p> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">That said, I think it should indeed be moved to KUrlNavigator or some other \
shared location to make the behaviour consistent, if time proves that the new \
behaviour is good to keep.</p></pre> </blockquote>
<p>On January 29th, 2016, 10:12 p.m. UTC, <b>Frank Reininghaus</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: \
10px;"> <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><blockquote \
style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 1em;border-left: 1px solid \
#bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: inherit;"> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">Hi, in some earlier comments I noted that I had difficulties implementing \
this in KUrlNavigator (can't remember why excactly, but I could look it up \
later).</p> </blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">I looked it up. This was because there are different \
ways to change the behavior concerning "Navigating to parent folder":</p> <ol \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0 0 0 2em;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: normal;"> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;"> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Assume that /home/user \
is shown in the view, then the user clicks /home/user/subfolder to navigate to \
"subfolder", then clicks "up" to go to the home folder again. Currently, the view \
will then show /home/user scrolled to the top, but it seems that some users expect \
that it should be scrolled to "subfolder", and "subfolder" should be the active item. \
Essentially, this could be achieved by interpreting "go up" as "go back" if the "up" \
URL is that same URL that would be reached by the "back" action. This would be easy \
to implement in KUrlNavigator.</p> </li>
<li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: normal;"> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">What you want is something different: \
If /home/user is shown in the view, and then "/" is entered in the location bar, then \
you want that "home" is selected. This is difficult to implement in \
KUrlNavigator.</p> </li>
</ol>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">Now the question is if solution 2 is really so much \
better than solution 1 that inconsistencies and more complex code (the two different \
kinds of history handling in KUrlNavigator and in DolphinViewConainer's m_lastUrl \
still look wrong to me) are justified. I think I would actually find behavior 2 \
confusing, to be honest. For example, if "/" is shown in the view, /usr is the \
current item, and I click "Home" in the Places, and then click "Back": Currently, the \
original state of the "/" view would be restored, i.e., /usr would still be the \
current item, and I think that this is what would be expected from the "Back" action: \
go back, and show the view just like it was. This is what the history is for IMHO. \
With your patch, however, /home would be the current item in this situation. This \
looks wrong to me.</p> <blockquote style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 \
1em;border-left: 1px solid #bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: \
inherit;"> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">1) it was not sure if the feature was accepted at all \
and I wanted to present a working implementation. 2) I think most non-power users \
won't notice the feature at all. 3) In my personal experience "heavy-duty" navigating \
takes place in dolphin but not in the file dialog. So, the lack of the feature there \
would not be that bad.</p> </blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">I don't see how any of this justifies inconsistencies \
between the behavior of Dolphin and the file dialog.</p> <blockquote \
style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 1em;border-left: 1px solid \
#bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: inherit;"> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">That said, I think it should indeed be moved to KUrlNavigator or some other \
shared location to make the behaviour consistent, if time proves that the new \
behaviour is good to keep.</p> </blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">This might not be possible at all. Once Dolphin is \
released with a modified behavior that adds some custom history handling on top of \
the one in KUrlNavigator, then any future change in KUrlNavigator's behavior might \
interact badly with the modifications in Dolphin. Note that both have different \
release schedules, so it would not be possible to fix this situation by reverting the \
modifications in Dolphin.</p></pre> </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: \
-pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I \
think that I understand now what our (maybe mostly my) confusion is about. I tested \
the behavior of the Windows 7 Explorer in the mean time, and I found that there is a \
crucial difference between what it does and what you propose here.</p> <p \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
inherit;">As Heiko said in \
http://marc.info/?l=kde-usability&m=140273827601672&w=2 navigating from \
c:\windows\system32\drivers to c:\ will select 'windows' because it is an indirect \
parent of the previous folder, but I found that this happens <strong style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">only \
if the navigation did not involve the history, i.e., it was not initiated by a 'back' \
or 'forward' action</strong>. Then the conflicts between the existing history \
handling (managed by KUrlNavigator) and your proposed feature (which is also a sort \
of history handling) that I'm worried about cannot occur.</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">BTW, \
just to show you that my worries are justified, here is a simple example that causes \
a rather odd behavior with your patch:</p> <ol style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0 0 0 2em;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;"> <li \
style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: \
normal;">Go /usr/include (or another folder with many subfolders, make sure that the \
subfolders fill multiple pages).</li> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">Add a subfolder to the \
Places (e.g., by dragging it to the Places Panel). I'll take the 'c++' \
subfolder.</li> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: normal;">Press the down arrow key and hold it until you have \
scrolled down the view a few pages. I'll keep the key pressed until the 'X11' \
subfolder is the current item.</li> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">Click the created \
'Place' in the panel (in my case, 'c++').</li> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">Click the 'Back' button \
in the toolbar.</li> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">Now you will be in /usr/include, and the \
view is scrolled to the old position, i.e., X11 is visible, but c++ is the current \
item - if you press 'up', then the view will scroll up suddenly.</li> </ol>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">This is due to a conflict between the history handling \
and your feature: the scoll position is restored from the history, but not the \
current item, which is set by your 'firstChildUrl' handling.</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">If \
you modify your feature such that it really does what Windows 7 does, then I will \
withdraw my objections :-)</p> <p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: \
0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I think that this should really be \
solved in KUrlNavigator. If it detects that a URL change was not a history action, \
such that it cannot provide view data that could be restored, AND the new URL is a \
parent of the previous URL, then it could emit a signal like selectParentUrl(QUrl), \
which Dolphin and other users of KUrlNavigator (such as the file dialog) could \
connect to.</p></pre> <br />
<p>- Frank</p>
<br />
<p>On January 24th, 2016, 4:14 p.m. UTC, Gregor Mi wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="12" style="border: \
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<td>
<div>Review request for Dolphin and Emmanuel Pescosta.</div>
<div>By Gregor Mi.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated Jan. 24, 2016, 4:14 p.m.</i></p>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Bugs: </b>
<a href="https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335616">335616</a>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
dolphin
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" \
style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: inherit;">This is a first working implementation of the feature \
suggestion filed in the ticket https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335616: "Dolphin: \
Navigate to parent folder selects child folder".</p> <p style="padding: \
0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">In \
short, this is what is does: Whenever the dolphin view is initialized to show the \
contents of a new URL (e.g. "/home/x/test") it will be checked if the new URL is a \
parent of the previous displayed URL (e.g. "/home/x/test/documents/aaa"). If the \
check is successful, then the common child (in this example: \
"/home/x/test/documents/") folder item will be selected and scrolled into \
view.</p></pre> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: \
1px solid #b8b5a0"> <tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: \
-moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: \
break-word;"><ul style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0 0 0 \
1em;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;"> <li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: \
inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">unit test passes</li> \
<li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: \
inherit;white-space: normal;">Played around with dolphin: enter URL manually, \
navigate via click in the item view, navigate via click in kurlnavigator, navigate \
with Alt+Left, Alt+Right, Alt+up, Backspace</li> </ul></pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>src/dolphinviewcontainer.h <span style="color: \
grey">(62f91100e9e5d457edd6f4d927c87610335834d7)</span></li>
<li>src/dolphinviewcontainer.cpp <span style="color: \
grey">(8fea3ba9d0bb8389d89724b9f0cd74605c0286fe)</span></li>
<li>src/tests/CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: \
grey">(22a8b48491fa7ac88ce1b29aecb20192837dd7ea)</span></li>
<li>src/tests/urlutiltest.cpp <span style="color: grey">(PRE-CREATION)</span></li>
<li>src/urlutil.h <span style="color: grey">(PRE-CREATION)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/123253/diff/" style="margin-left: \
3em;">View Diff</a></p>
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