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List:       kfm-devel
Subject:    Re: Suggestion for Konquerer developers and delivering "stripped"
From:       Thiago Macieira <thiago () kde ! org>
Date:       2006-11-06 11:06:01
Message-ID: 200611061206.09292.thiago () kde ! org
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OnThe Road wrote:
>Guys,
>I don't know what you are thinking, but if you have
>any hope at all of going mainstream, you need to come
>up with an alternate strategy for getting debug info.

And we don't know what you're thinking, but you're way off the mark. 
Either way, thanks for your comments; let's address your remarks.

Setting things straight first: KDE does not ship binaries. At all. Any 
binaries. KDE ships source code.

Distributions ship binaries. So, if you have a qualm or suggestion about 
how to handle debug builds or debug info, it's to your distribution that 
you should be talking. It's they who make the builds and it's they who 
decide how/if to package the debug info.

By the way, one recent trend in distribution policy is to generate 
separate debug packages. If a user is interested in submitting a bug 
report, turning his application into one with proper backtrace is a few 
mouse-clicks away, by installing a new package (which, by the way, 
doesn't impact at all run time!).

>To get Konqueuer to crash, using (XUbuntu 6.06), just
>go to cnn.com, select the business button. That's it!
>Gone...every,.. single,.. time...

No crash here. I got redirected to http://money.cnn.com/index.html?cnn=yes 
and the page loaded just fine. KDE 3.5.5 r594555

>Expecting a "main stream" (i.e. non-geek) user to get
>source, rebuild with debug options, install, just so
>they can send a backtrace is completely unrealistic.

Agreed. That would not be a realistic expectation.

>Wake up!.. For stripped releases, you should
>incorporate a "log option" that turns on the
>generation of log files (yes even in a released
>version, where the debug symbols have been stripped).

A log option that would log what? The websites being visited?

>If you are unreasonable and unwilling to do this, at
>least make a debug binary build available, that's the
>least I would expect.

That's not our job to do, but, like I said before, it's already available 
from the major distributions.

>BTW, I have been developing C/C++ for over 20 years
>and I must say that software should never crash. 

Agreed, but it happens. Or you're going to tell me that in those 20 years, 
you have never written software that crashed, at least once?

>It 
>might not work correctly, but when something just
>crashes, it indicates poor architecture, framework and
>especially error handling (or lack there of). Have you
>ever heard of exception handling? If not, I would
>suggest that you read up on it (and think about
>implementing it).

Exception handling isn't the solution for all problems under the Sun. I 
suggest you read up on our architecture too before making wild 
suggestions.

>I realize that no one is getting paid for the open
>source stuff, however, that is no excuse for shitty
>software.

Ok, now you can go away. If you want me to continue addressing your 
remarks, rewrite your email with a cool head and without swearing.

If you consider our software "shitty", then we can't address your 
concerns. You have already made up your mind about our quality and 
nothing we do will be good enough. I suggest you try something else that 
suits your needs instead.

If you've just written this out of anger because you lost data or 
something recent, then we can talk when you're no longer angry.

[snip the rest of the message]
-- 
  Thiago Macieira  -  thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
    PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint:
    E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C  966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358

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