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List:       kdepim-users
Subject:    Re: [kdepim-users] IMAP shared mailboxes: issues with kmail?
From:       Ingo =?iso-8859-1?q?Kl=F6cker?= <kloecker () kde ! org>
Date:       2009-01-21 20:16:07
Message-ID: 200901212116.07756 () thufir ! ingo-kloecker ! de
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On Wednesday 21 January 2009, Wilhelm Meier wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 21 Januar 2009 schrieb Ingo Klöcker:
> > On Tuesday 20 January 2009, Wilhelm Meier wrote:
> > > Am Dienstag 20 Januar 2009 schrieb Ingo Klöcker:
> > > > I'm subscribed to kdepim-users, so replying to the list
> > > > suffices.
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 20 January 2009, Wilhelm Meier wrote:
> > > > > Am Dienstag 20 Januar 2009 schrieb Ingo Klöcker:
> > > > > > On Monday 19 January 2009, Wilhelm Meier wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > are there any known issues with
> > > > > > > symlinked-shared-mailboxes and kmail?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I use dovecot with virtual users (LDAP), so there are no
> > > > > > > unix-permissions related
> > > > > > > problems here: all mailboxes are owned by the local user
> > > > > > > vmail.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Each user maildir has some symlinks to shared mailboxes.
> > > > > > > This works fine if I use squirrelmail as a MUA.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > kmail instead seems to have some problems: if I save a
> > > > > > > mail into the shared-folder, the other users are seeing
> > > > > > > this new mail almost immediately. But if I delete(!) a
> > > > > > > mail from the shared-folder, the list of the other kmails
> > > > > > > remains untouch. Refreshing does nothing. I have to close
> > > > > > > kmail and restart.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is this related to some sort of wrong config of the
> > > > > > > shared mailboxes or is this a (known) dovecot <-> kmail
> > > > > > > problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KMail does not watch its folder storage for changes. So it
> > > > > > is by design (we wanted to keep it simple) that a running
> > > > > > KMail does not notice all changes done by other processes.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I turn on "auto-expunge=true" the mail-files in the
> > > > > MDA-storage (MDA=dovecot) are deleted, but only if I select
> > > > > the INBOX in KMail instance which did the deletion. In this
> > > > > case the other KMails instance see the changes if they
> > > > > refresh the list.
> > > > >
> > > > > This would be fine, if I hadn't select the INDOX. It would be
> > > > > better if the expunging takes place immediately or after a
> > > > > timeout / refresh-timeval.
> > > >
> > > > Ahh, misunderstanding. The different KMails are all using IMAP
> > > > to access the shared folders. Correct?
> > > >
> > > > For technical reasons KMail does not support change
> > > > notifications by the IMAP server. But I still do not really
> > > > understand what problems you are observing. You delete a
> > > > message in a shared folder with one KMail, but other KMails
> > > > notice that the message has been deleted only after a restart?
> > >
> > > Yes, mostly.
> > >
> > > If auto-expunge=false, the other KMail only notice the deleted
> > > message after restart. In this case the mail-files (on the
> > > impa-server) get deleted when the KMail starts.
> > >
> > > If auto-expunge=true, the messages vanishes in another KMails
> > > list (if I select a random other folder and then select the
> > > shared folder again), if the first KMail compresses the folder on
> > > a
> > > context-menu-action or if I switch to the INBOX.
> > >
> > > So, I think here are two problems:
> > >
> > > 1) the expunge of the KMail deleting the message should take
> > > place immediately or after some timeout without the need to
> > > select the INBOX
> >
> > Hmm. AFAIK expunging should not be necessary. If a message is
> > marked as deleted in a folder all other MUAs accessing this folder
> > will immediately notice that the message is marked as deleted.
>
> Reading you comment below I wonder how KMail is doing this. Or do you
> mean that the MUAs should notice the status change of the message on
> the next polling?
>
> If I do a refresh in KMail it seems that KMail does not recognize the
> status change.
>
> > > 2) the notification of the expunged message should reach the
> > > other KMail, even if I stay in the shared-folder.
> >
> > Due to technical reasons KMail cannot listen to IMAP notifications.
> > The workaround is polling, i.e. frequently checking for changes.
>
> see above, please
>
> > Quite frankly, I think the problem really is with your setup. You
> > make the assumption that symlinking the storage of the IMAP server
> > should work, but apparently it does not work because the deleted
> > flags are not shared among the symlinked instances of the shared
> > folder. Is symlinking really the standard procedure for sharing
> > folders with dovecot? Hmm, according to [1] it is, another option
> > being namespaces.
> >
> > I suggest to ask for help/advice on the dovecot mailing list
> > because to me this seems to be a problem with the symlinking
> > approach for sharing folders and not a problem with KMail.
>
> Well, I asked the dovecot-people and they said it the other way
> round: KMail should handle status changes done by other MUAs or other
> instances of the same MUA.

Hmm, indeed. I just deleted a message via webmail and then updated the 
corresponding folder in KMail. The deleted message was still shown in 
the message list. Only after clicking on the deleted message it was 
removed from the list. Please submit a bug report for this at 
http://bugs.kde.org or via Help->Report Bug.


Regards,
Ingo

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