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List:       kde-www
Subject:    Re: The KDE website landscape
From:       Hubipete <hubipete () gmx ! net>
Date:       2006-03-20 21:57:58
Message-ID: 200603202258.01519.hubipete () gmx ! net
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Hi sebas,
I could help you but I know only a bit of (X)HTML & Css and no PHP and such 
"higher" things. But if you like you can give me some kind of junior job. As 
I'm not able to really help "implementing" new KDE websites I only wanted to 
give my opinion and the intention of my text was to bring this subject into 
mind... I didn't know there are already people working on it, do you have 
some kind of web presence?
A way to stem the huge work would perhaps be a wiki page, where is written 
which parts have to be reviewed and then the reviewers can give their opinion 
about the content  which to delete and what to add...
Or the group which is actually working on this topic might stand out and shout 
to the community that they exist ^^

> dot.kde.org - KDE news aggregation
> We're also planning for a press channel which serves as primary information
> point for journalists. The dot is in my eyes more a community news sites.
ok, but I didn't want actually to turn the dot into a pure press channel but 
to aggregate the news a bit. atm I have to go to about 5 websites to grep all 
news, or better I have 5 rss feeds .... why not putting them all together and 
often the dot repeats the news only, so making the dot an aggregation is the 
logical solution.

> > Modul sites
>
> I think not every module has necessarily a modul site. It's more that
> people who figured a certain part needed a website, they did it. That's how
> it usually works: Something itches enough for someone to scratch it. She
> then creates a website. Sadly, often they're abandoned, the great number of
> sites certainly doesn't help there.
Ok you're right not every modul is that important, but if you try to get any 
information on the kdelibs package you're currently installing it is really 
hard to find something on the web. The modul site is more or less just a 
summary in my vision intended to give an overview.


> > Application sites
> Same as above, the real problem I will explain later on.
Every application needs a decent representation, I know it is much work but 
atm the information about KWord as an example are so rare that it is a pitty 
to "hide" such a great application.

> > Educational portal
> This idea has been dropped, AFAIK due to lack of manpower.
What a pitty! But if this is ok I could start looking for existing tutorials 
and collect them. Making them better and appealing is the bigger task, but 
perhaps there are DOCs people who are willing to help, but I could do so, 
too.

> > Technology sites
> It's also part of the marketing strategy, marketing Solid, Phonon, Plasma
> and all that goodness as the "pillars of KDE4". Later on, they'll be useful
> to explain KDE technology and may replace other bits of the whole
> webpresence.
Yeah you're totally right. All those "killer features" of KDE development 
needs such a page: KConfigXT, KIO, akonadi, KSVG, KHTML, KJS...

> > Conclusion
> > In general there are three major goals for the future KDE sites: being
> > more informative, being better structured and being more visual pleasant.
> > To make it clear with an example: the changelogs. These are really
> > important to inform about a new KDE version but KDE fails to give an easy
> > to read and visual pleasant overview for users. There should be a guide
> > with several articles covering the new features with nice screenshots and
> > descritions. GNOME has it, so why don't we...?
>
> I agree. Here's the problem though.
>
> I'm afraid that people are aware of the issues you're outlining. Updating
> webpages is obviously not the favourite activity of a lot of people.
> Sometimes it's easier to just write new content (most people have lost
> sight long time ago anyway, so they're not even aware of information being
> duplicated). That leads to duplicate information on the one hand, outdated
> pages on the other hand. It also certainly does not give the user any
> guidance.
Providing information is very important the user/devels don't like to look for 
them.

> Another problem in the past has been that people tend to give a lot of
> critique on the websites, but when it comes to fixing it, no one steps up.
> Critisizing others has been much more popular than doing the work.
I want to help! As much as I can and this might not much unfortunately...

> What actually is needed are people that are dedicated to help making KDE's
> webpresence worthwhile again, to fix all those issues you're mentioned and
> to put time and effort into it. Honestly, we're short on those people.
> Reworking KDE's webpresence is a major undertaking, and it's probably not
> the most rewarding one either. There are hundreds, if not thousands of
> webpages that need being reviewed, merged, thrown away and copied over.
> After having a framework that is.
>
> The good news, however, is: A team of people who also believe that we need
> to do something about the websites has come together and is beginning to
> work on the webpages, the result hopefully being a consolidated
> webpresence, informative, beautiful and probably most important:
> Maintainable and actively being maintained.
I want to get into it! What I think is needed is a place where all 
informations are brought together, decisions about content is made and the 
"implementation" discussed.
1.step: get an overview of the existing content
2.step: merge it
3.step: start an parallel webpresence with a new design etc
4.step: publish it

isn't there a way to distribute the work on more people than just the group ? 
Making the developers responsive for their presence ?? doing controls and 
remind them when they did not update it ... :-D sounds like a burocracy

> What I like is your idea and concept. Get back to me if you want to be one
> of the people that make it happen.

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