> I'm not talking about alternative CSS. I'm not even talking about CSS. As I 
> wrote the structure is the problem. Get JAWS, there's a free version 
> available. Try for yourself.

will try out.


> Of course not, elsewise tables wouldn't be in HTML anymore. But a table is a 
> tag to display data in a specific relationship, not for layout.
> 
> >  i think you misunderstand something.
> > http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0802d.html#livedandlovedlikefrank
> 
> I fail to see what you mean. Probably "But the combination of simple tables, 
> sophisticated CSS for modern browsers, and basic CSS for old ones has enabled 
> us to produce marketable work that validates - work that is accessible in 
> every sense of the word."  
> As I wrote, a table is a tag to display data in a specific relationship. 
> That's not true for layout. So it's a HTML hack that validates due to the 
> fact that validators don't check the context of the way a tag is used. A hack 
> that has proven to work for many years. But still it remains a hack. 
> Besides that, what I get from Zeldman.com is that he thinks tables can be used 
> if the design is not workable in non-table layout. I can't see why this 
> should be the case for a new kde.org design.
> I agree with you that it's a good idea to try get the site to look acceptable 
> in older browsers, but I do not think the answer lies in using tables.

ok. i took tables to have the site structure well displayed also in
non-graphical text browsers like w3 & co. i know that there are
practical css layouts out there, zeldman mentioned them at ALA. I'm
willing to give them a try, and restructure the codebase of the
exisiting layout.

> Nothing changes. It's just that the average font size I have set in Konq is a 
> bit larger then "average".  The same thing happens on IE6, but not on Moz. I 
> don't think it's a KHTML bug, but I haven't really checked it.

I thougt you where talking of something different - misunderstood.
I got that earlier, but i was too busy on finding a *final* layout to
fix this.

> I was talking about the box, sorry it wasn't too clear. Since it's hard to 
> describe, here are some screenshots:
> Konq:  http://www.web-xs.de/~dev/shots/box_konq.jpg
> Moz: http://www.web-xs.de/~dev/shots/box_moz.jpg
> 
> Back to the font size thing. Yes, fonts scale with the settings of the user, 
> but the output doesn't really work too good. I tried modified-4 and larger 
> fonts on some browsers:
> Konq: http://www.web-xs.de/~dev/shots/konq_largefont.jpg
> Moz: http://www.web-xs.de/~dev/shots/moz_largefont.jpg
> IE: http://www.web-xs.de/~dev/shots/ie_largefont.jpg 

got it.

> http://www.alistapart.com/stories/flashsatay/
> Shows how to do the flashy stuff. ;)
> ALA scales quite well and is quite nice in all resolutions I checked. It's 
> also quite usable with a screen reader though it is not WAI AAA. There are a 
> lot of examples on the net.
> And I'm *not* saying your design is crap! I like many aspects of it, but not 
> all of them.

if you are willing to make a flash animation it would be welcomed..:-)

> 
> > > - There are far too many links on the page. As Marko Faas pointed out,
> > > many of them are confusing or useless. I know this is just a design
> > > study. But anyway, crop of the confusing/useless links and the site will
> > > work with a one sided menu. I know we are trying to get the layout
> > > straight, not the content, but we have to keep the content in mind when
> > > doing the layout.

i looked at your proposal but IMHO it seemed even more confusing to
me...

> right, as i experienced I'm obviously the only one *trying* to take every 
> possiblity as a measure ;-) cheers.

cheers.
 
> 
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