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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KDE/kdelibs/kdeui/shortcuts
From:       Peter <gostelow () global ! co ! za>
Date:       2009-06-09 0:45:05
Message-ID: 200906090045.08703.gostelow () global ! co ! za
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On Wednesday 03 June 2009 21:19, Parker Coates wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> > Andreas Pakulat wrote:
> >> On 03.06.09 19:07:14, John Tapsell wrote:
> >>> SVN commit 977282 by johnflux:
> >>>
> >>> Add F11 as a shortcut for fullscreen
> >>
> >> [...] this takes away a prominent and easy-to-reach shortcut from
> >> _all_ applications for the benefit of just a few (which actually have
> >> special fullscreen mode) as far as I understood.
> >
> > Actually, everything has full-screen mode, since it is a WM thing (unless
> > it goes out of its way to avoid it). It just isn't "special" in most
> > applications.
>
> Actually, you mistaken here. We're discussing the "Full Screen Mode"
> standard action, not KWin's "Fullscreen" setting.

Well we should be discussing whether KDE defaults affect consistency among 
apps because that was the motivation for requesting this change.

> The two are not 
> equivalent. See Gwenview for a case where this is particularly
> obvious.
>
> Personally, I do see some value in Konqueror using F11 as its
> *secondary* shortcut for going fullscreen. It adds some compatibility
> for transitioning users, without costing Konqueror anything.

I agree, but users are more likely to ask for more secondary 'transitional' 
shortcuts and remain 'in transistion' for Konqueror's lifetime. The 
addage,'Give and inch, and they take a mile', comes to mind.

> But 
> applying it to all applications just doesn't make sense.

That's because you ignored the reason: to provide consistency among apps. The 
best place to ensure all apps use the same defaults is at the global level, 
which is KDE. So KDE can determine which shortcuts are most commonly used and 
make them global defaults, overriding the app's actual ones. Users are now 
able to learn one set of defaults instead of thousands.

> Ctrl+Shift+F 
> is already KDE's fullscreen shortcut and I don't think we need
> another. If individual applications want to use F11, that should be
> their choice.

I agree with your conclusions, but your arguments do not oppose the _reason_ 
given for adding F11, that it improves app consistency. Until you do that, 
these patches will continue.

Regards,

Peter
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