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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KDE 4.2 Toolbars
From:       Anne Wilson <cannewilson () googlemail ! com>
Date:       2008-11-20 10:24:17
Message-ID: 200811201024.18117.cannewilson () googlemail ! com
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On Thursday 20 November 2008 09:53:57 James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> Anne Wilson wrote:
> > On Monday 17 November 2008 04:44:21 James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> >> I will simply state my opinion which is that I think that icons
> >> only are preferable as long as we have the tooltips to remind users
> >>  what they are for.  I see this as a learning process with the
> >> tooltips as a learning aid.  It is best to design an interface so
> >> that it has a learning curve -- so it becomes easier and faster to
> >> use with learning.  This has always been a major criticism of the
> >> Mac interface -- that it doesn't work this way; making an interface
> >>  the easiest for newbies is not always the best design.  With a lot
> >>  of icons and icons only on the toolbars, you learn where they are
> >> and will access them quickly.
> >
> > Logically, I agree.  Practically, sorry but I have to disagree.  My
> > experience of MLs over the last 6 months show me just how resistant
> > to change people are. From what I've seen people will walk away
> > rather than change their fixed ideas.
> >
> > It's a sad state of affairs, but true.  What shocked me even more is
> > that the attitude is not confined to the over-70s - in fact the
> > majority of whiners I've seen have been from much younger age-groups,
> >  so it's not a declining problem.
>
> This should not be surprising.  It is called proactive inhibition.
> Previous learning can interfere with new learning of similar things.  It
> is hard to make changes.  I use "Find" a lot so I added it to the main
> toolbar -- still have to correct the habit of using the menu for it.
> But, that is the advantage of learning the interface -- you don't even
> have to think about it.  If you have typed a long time, you don't think
> about what you are doing -- you think and words appear on the screen.
>
> I started using menus with DOS before I had a mouse so I found it hard
> to use a mouse when I first got one.  I still find it hard to use the
> KDE menus with the keyboard because I have to hold down the <Alt> key.
> It is awkward compared with hitting the "/".  An <Alt> dead key would help.
>
I also started long before windows, and have always had a problem with double-
clicks, so the first thing I did when I found kde was to turn on single-click 
- and breathe a sigh of relief.  My husband who has some manual impairment 
after a stroke also appreciates single-click, but my daughter stays firmly 
with double-click.  As always, choice is the great thing.

> > Since I presume that any decision will also relate to KDE on Windows,
> >  that is even more likely to be the situation.
>
> In KDE-3, when you first started the desktop (the first time) you had a
> choice of Windows, Mac, or Unix style GUI.  Perhaps that would be the
> place to choose.  But it still doesn't address the question of more
> toolbar icons -- these are just file, so they could be moved.  For
> example: on KPDF (KDE3) I have a lot of buttons [attached].  I use all
> of these and having the farther apart due to having text under them
> would really be a negative especially the navigation arrows.  Some of
> these which you have to go to the menu for with  the default setup are
> used often and this is also a negative.  Would these all fit with text
> under them?  I tried it; Even with the narrow font, they don't fit.

I also personalise my toolbar, as you'll see in the attached png.  (The 
additional icons are for full-headers, fancy-headers and full-delete.)

You'll notice that I have turned off text, purely because the icons stretched 
far too far with text on.  I always favour the choice being left to the user, 
but this is where I met what I considered a usability snag.  I expected that 
to be an option in Configure Toolbars, but of course that is a tool for adding 
and removing icons.  I can see why the devs thought it didn't belong there.  
However, the mechanism for turning off the text felt illogical - so much so 
that I tried to look at it again while typing this and couldn't find it.

That, to me, is the far bigger problem for the user.  If something is 
configurable you should be able to easily find the configuration dialogue.

Anne


["toolbar.png" (image/png)]
["signature.asc" (application/pgp-signature)]

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