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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Localised folders in /home/user (Documents and Desktop)
From:       Kevin Krammer <kevin.krammer () gmx ! at>
Date:       2006-11-23 10:44:38
Message-ID: 200611231144.43623.kevin.krammer () gmx ! at
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On Thursday 23 November 2006 06:24, Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Am Mittwoch, 22. November 2006 23:48 schrieb Kevin Krammer:
> > Hmm, well, if we start assuming that "normal users" are not
> > - looking at paths
> > - not accessing the root directory
> > - not activating hidding file
> >
> > why do we need a direct association with directories and folder names
> > anyway? Wouldn't it be easier to have Desktop and Document just not be
> > directories from the user's point of view, i.e. below a hidden directory
> > and thus never visible in paths?
>
> I have "documents" on a different partition, this would not be possible,
> would it? At least the user would have to know the hidden place of the
> directory to assign it during installation.

Since poeple claim that users do not work with paths, they are in no position 
to change those folders to different locations, right?

However I am quite impressed that the user won't navigate upwards from their 
home directory, but manage to have their own parition for documents.

Or that a user who manages their own document partion would not be able to 
choose the desktop folder as the mount point or symlink the directory.

> Why not simply localise them and establish via freedesktop a common
> variable that indicates to all applications which directory is the
> document-dir. Or, even simpler. Do not store common paths, i.e. "Desktop"
> and "Documents" in a KDE-config but establish a ".commonpaths" file with
> the paths of "Documents" and "Desktop" in it. Or a file each, i.e.
> ".pathtodesktop"
> and ".pathtodocuments". The user deleting that file would not cause any
> data-loss and is as likely as deleting .kde.

As I said, environment variables do not work for this.
However, shared configs would, though the "even simpler" does not apply to the 
process of getting an agreement on location/filenames/content format.

But nevertheless you can try to propose a respective specification on the xdg 
mailinglist on freedesktop.org. Keep in mind that shared configuration is 
supposed to be stored under $XDG_CONFIG_HOME (defaulting to $HOME/.config)

> > Consider Firefox downloading something to the desktop, it won't be there
> > for users with KDE and German localisation, because their "desktop" is
> > called "Arbeitsfläche", so the file is obviously not there.
>
> With the above approach this would not happen. But even if the file was not
> used, there would not be data-loss, since the user should dimply be asked
> by the app where to save a file, if the standard-dir is non-existent.

That's why I wrote "loss"
The files are obviously correctly saved, but not where they are expected to 
be.

> > > What happens currently, if I rename Documents or Desktop, nothing
> > > fails, so why should it happen when they are localised straight away.
> >
> > Right. Move/rename Desktop and tell me you still have all the file
> > visible and accessible on KDesktop
>
> If KDE creates those dirs, it does know about their paths. Documents is
> never an issue. Desktop only, if KDE is not aware of the action, which it
> is, if the user is not forced to alter the names manually to have them
> localised.

Ok, granted, any rename operation on those two directories could warn that the 
user is changing "system" paths or switch configuration as well.
Assuming those kind of users always use KIO to rename.

What's your upgrade path scenario?
Users restoring (or admins for them) their home directories on a new system 
and, fortunately for them, KDE is now distributed with a matching 
localisation for them.

What will KDE do on startup?
Scan all possible variants of the two paths and rename them to the current 
localisation?
Let it stay in the old localisation?
Deny using the new localistation?
Just create the directories again and let the user deal with migrating from 
the old locations?

Cheers,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer
KDE user support, developer mentoring

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