Side note: I am finding this discussion highly enjoyable and enlightening. Thank you :) On 10/2/05, Diego Moya wrote: > Not for using them, but you need a way to organize them for retrieval. > And some files will be left on the desktop for long term use, not just > for the current session. Oops. I meant open files--the ones being viewed or edited. I guess I wasn't clearn enough there. :/ Hmm. I am not sure exactly how far plasma will be going, but I could see some interesting uses, based on default configurations. However, it will force a certain level of automation/magic into the system, and that will cause problems... just remember to ask me later ;) > Of course. But the point was that the computer desktop has stronger > constraints than the physical one - you can't just intend to use the > computer desktop like a real one, you should have a different workflow > that relied on the computer strengths and not in its weakness. The > desktop metaphor does the latter. Looks like I just walked into that one ;) > > http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/topic,238.0 > > http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/topic,158.0 > > (Read both pages of the "design mode" thread. I posted a rough mockup > > on the 2nd page). > > The "formats" of plasmoids are a good idea. I think they should be > used as different "views" of a same object - every plasmoid should be > able to support all these four positions. The user should be able to > move any plasmoid from one of these roles to any other one and it > should keep working there. Is this how they're being designed? That was actually an abstraction I made while considering how one could implement design mode. Since the people at kde-artists are a god deal less usability-oriented than I am, noone ever discussed the utility of it. My general goal was to create a set of general semantics to facilitate discussion. Didn't work well though ;) > I've answered some concerns about the design mode in that thread. But > moving common files should be done by default drag and drop/direct > manipulation - the design mode should only be used for creating and > resizing containers, not standalone items. I havn't been to kde-artists in about a week, due to school and Civ III taking up my time. I'll be sure to check that out later, though. Looking at it in hindsight, I can agree with you. Drag and drop makes things much simpler in the long run. (However, it can also make things a bit more difficult. How does the system know when you mean to move the item in the container, as opposed to the container itself? How do you implement "extender" containers?) > I'm not sure how much management does the desktop support, and how it > maps to user goals? There should be high level management tools so > that changing user goals doesn't require manual tweaking of the whole > desktop configuration - some automation should be available. Hopefully, Tenor/Kat and related plasmoids will make this not an issue. Unfortunately, as this thread is demonstrating, the way such high-level tools work (at least by default), is quite debatable. ;) > That's what system-wide search is for. You can retrieve some files by > position, but you can also find them by keyword, by content, date or > any other attribute. Applets/plasmoids/active windows should also be > searchable with the universal search tools. Interesting concept, one that I definitely didn't consider. I'm not used to this universal search stuff yet ;) > > Easy overridability would be the difficult part. The obvious solution > > (to me) would be to provide several buttons (not by default) which > > perform the action in a different manner. So, for instance, there > > would be the intelligent button, the "minimize all windows" button, > > etc. > > I have a proposal for an interface that could do the trick. Where is > the best forum to explain it and attach some mockups? The kde-artists > forum has several threads with suggestions for new features, but I > don't know if there's enough usability people there or I should post > it to this mailing list. KDE-Artists is a good place to start refining ideas. They usually express excitement and interest there, as well as propose stuff you might never have thought of. Occasionally, there is some usability discussion/argument. Such things are generally carried through (and started) by Janne and/or myself. However, it is mostly a "repository of creativity". Either way, it is usually a good place to start, and the best ideas normally end up with great inkscape eye-candy. Once you feel that your idea has progressed to the extent possible, then I'd mention it here or to the open-usability guys. > Unfamiliar isn't that bad when you use standard lore about human > interaction. iTunes was unfamiliar when it came out and became a great > hit because of its superior song management capabilities. Mezzo is > different to other desktops, but it's quite similar to kiosk help > systems that you find in public places; and it has a simple two-level > structure that doesn't put any burden on user memory. Contrast this to > the several layers deep hierarchical K-menu in KDE. Yeh. A large portion of my email was apologizing for mis-citing and agreeing with you. My mind goes haywire on occasion, and things get garbled. ;) _______________________________________________ kde-usability mailing list kde-usability@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability