From kde-usability  Wed Mar 30 20:29:15 2005
From: Aaron Seigo <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:29:15 +0000
To: kde-usability
Subject: Re: Show/Hide vs Checkbox
Message-Id: <200503302029.18971.aseigo () kde ! org>
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On March 30, 2005 20:12, Diego Moya wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:50:59 -0700, Aaron Seigo <aseigo@kde.org> wrote:
> > On March 30, 2005 19:34, Diego Moya wrote:
> > > Do users know that in menus there are only actions?
> >
> > generally they don't need to know these details consciously. if they do
> > need to know these things, something is wrong.
>
> You're 100% right.
>
> And then why should users know that the text in the menu label means
> an action that is going to happen when clicked?

they don't have to. and that's the entire point.

when there is a checkbox the user has to realize that the checkbox represen=
ts=20
the current state of the menu entry and then deduce what selecting that ent=
ry=20
again will result in.

with action based "Show/Hide" menu entries the user simply reads the entry =
and=20
it says what will happen. they don't have to figure anything out, it's all=
=20
spelled out for them.

action based menus do not require the user to know anything more than how t=
o=20
open a menu and select a given item. state based menus (e.g. with checkboxe=
s)=20
requires the user to understand the implied semantics of the menu entry and=
=20
figure out based on that what will happen when the entry is selected.

you are kind of confusing what we have to know when designing for usability=
=20
(e.g. menus should have actions) and what users have to know to use a usabl=
e=20
interface (e.g. "this will show offline users")

> > i suggest you go around and present a menu and a button to users and ask
> > them if they are different.
>
> Go ask HCI designers. :-) In all the books that I've read, menu items
> follow similar guidelines as buttons (and state menus are
> discouraged).

of course they follow similar (though not identical) guidelines to buttons.=
=20
the question was how they are perceived by users, though. menus are not=20
buttons. they are menus. they are not perceived as being the same, nor are=
=20
they used in the same way. therefore they do not follow the exact same set =
of=20
guidelines.

> So do you think that all menu entries should be actions, or not? (I
> think they should, but a toggle menu with a checkbox and no verbs is
> not that bad - sometimes).

as a general rule, yes menu entries should be actions. only when it's worse=
 to=20
be an action should they not be ;)=20

the Settings -> Toolbars menu is a good example where showing state is bett=
er=20
than action based settings (because you can have many items in there and=20
Show/Hide starts to break down visually). personally, i take this as a bit =
of=20
a hint that we're using the wrong type of interface to control this ...=20
*shrug*

> > and just to be completely pedantic about it, we (and Windows for that
> > matter) do have buttons that change their labels rather effectively:
> > "Options >>" ...
>
> Does the label show state in that case?

yes, actually, it does... the arrows show whether it will show or hide the=
=20
additional UI.

> *Might* the label be thought as describing the application's state?

indeed.

> > Society is Geometric
>
> Huh? I though it was topologic! :-)

heh.. =3D)

=2D-=20
Aaron J. Seigo
Society is Geometric

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