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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Updated File Selection Dialog Designs
From:       "Jamethiel Knorth" <jamethknorth () hotmail ! com>
Date:       2004-08-11 13:56:27
Message-ID: BAY24-F14K9VdNW3YQO0003355d () hotmail ! com
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>From: Segedunum <segedunum@actuaria.co.uk>
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:07:14 +0100
>
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>On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 04:39:08, roko wrote:
> > Explanation here:
> > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5582
>
>Eugenia's mock up is not that great to be honest. She summises that the 
>people
>will reach for the links at the top if good enough shortcuts are in there. 
>I
>don't know about anyone else, but having convenient access to your Home
>directory, a floppy drive or your network is an absolute given. No one 
>should
>have to *reach* for it. Because of the proximity of the buttons to the box 
>at
>the top, and the one at the bottom where all the files are, it isn't clear
>what applies to what when you click on one of those buttons. Does it put a
>new folder at the top, or in the main file list? Yes, I know we know what 
>it
>probably is but it isn't sub-conscious. Navigationally, it looks like a 
>pain
>to get around folders manually, as there looks as if there is no way of 
>doing
>it. It also isn't clear how the navigational links function or where they 
>are
>actually situated (orientation again), and you can't type in a filename or 
>a
>location directly either.
>
>It is a straight-jacket in essence, and is shockingly poor usability-wise
>because it goes dead against the rule of putting the user in control.
>
>Additionally, from Jamethiel's Summary:
> > The background color is no longer a darkened gray, as this was bad 
>looking
> > and an irregularity in the interface.
>
>The reason why it is darkened is to highlight that it is a bit different 
>from
>the other list/text boxes on there as it is the main means for top-level
>navigation. I have never found the Mac file dialogue that great here as
>locations, devices and folders tend to merge into one when you are looking 
>at
>it. People also tend not to use the folders listed in there because they
>cannot see exactly where they are located - geography and orientation 
>again.

The issue with the darkened background as an irregularity was not that it 
was different from the rest of that dialog, it was that it was different 
from the entire rest of the system. That was basically the only time that 
color was used, besides a few other side panels which similarly suffered 
from it.

>However, I like the way you've separated them and used a lightened 
>background
>image to do that. That's good.
>
[snip]
>
>On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:04:58, Jamethiel Knorth wrote:
> > Search as you type is only useful in extremely long lists, and is 
>already
> > half-replaced by the filter. Searching as a search tool allows finding 
>what
> > directory something is in.
>
>You're just not going to get a whole search mechanism in a file dialogue.
>Since you're saving into your Home directory 95% of the time, the Juk-style
>search is not too much of a problem. Anywhere else you'll be saving to will
>probably be a place on the network.

You certainly can fit a full search mechanism in, if a good search system is 
made. On the other hand, search-as-you-type would solve basically no 
problems, because it only deals with a flat list, and your home directory is 
not indexed.

The suggested behavior was for the search bar to do a search in the user's 
home directory, as you recommended, but that can't be done in a 
search-as-you-type method.

>Additionally, use the word 'find'. It implies that you are not just 
>searching,
>but that you will actually find something - which is what it is all about. 
>If
>you don't find, you don't open or save.

That's a pretty good point. I'll have to remember to change that when I get 
a chance.

> > This is basically to solve what I have seen to be one of the most common
> > problems a user has: not knowing where they saved a file.
>
>Alternatively, the file dialogue could open intelligently at the last place
>that you saved that file :). Also, if you've used the Recent Files list, 
>that
>would pretty much solve the problem for you. It isn't saving the file that 
>is
>the problem, it is finding it to open again. This is covered by most
>functionality, like Recent Files, today.
>
>Opening is slightly more difficult as the application and file dialogue do 
>not
>have a handle on what you want to open. A simple search would work well
>there.

Which is why there is a search bar for a simple search tool.

> > As an example, I have a friend who has twenty-two CD drives.
>
>How many people have twenty two CD drives? If you have that many you have 
>to
>accept that you'll have to handle them.

The point is that having abnormal hardware should not suddenly cause a 
problem, it should be preempted if possible. It is possible to preempt.

> > They all need you to know a hostname already, which is why they are 
>usually
> > done through shortcuts.
>
>That's why dynamic network browsing through good technology like Lisa is a
>must. This kind of browsing just isn't going to work statically, and the
>process so far of using remote shares on Linux/Unix by statically mounting,
>or going to static locations, just isn't an option.

Which works fine for the local network, but not at all off of there. What 
will happen when the protocol dropdown is changed to 'ftp://'. As far as I 
can tell, either nothing will happen (besides maybe blanking the location 
bar) and the user will need to supply a full path to the ftp site.

It's still better to just include the 'file://' entry at the start of the 
line and leave it in one box, unless I'm totally missing how this will work 
with the majority of protocols.

> > It won't 'just work'. I promise, it won't 'just work'.
>
>Of course it should just work, it just means that you customise it to how 
>you
>work best. You don't need huge configuration dialogues to do that.

Of course. So did you have any suggestions about an easier way to configure 
it that would allow it to be configured? I had a few suggestions in an 
earlier e-mail, but you didn't comment so I can't really get anything from 
this line.

>Cheers,
>
>David

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