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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Konq. Location->Quit Menu Misnomer
From:       "Jamethiel Knorth" <jamethknorth () hotmail ! com>
Date:       2004-07-09 3:45:08
Message-ID: BAY7-F95GHUZBe7VT1o00003a79 () hotmail ! com
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>From: Art Carney <greencarrots@nospammail.net>
>Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:41:20 -0500
>
>On July 8, 2004 12:07 pm, Jamethiel Knorth wrote:
> > >From: Leo Savernik <l.savernik@aon.at>
> > >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:40:25 +0200
> > >
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >Am Mittwoch 07 Juli 2004 05:53 schrieb Jamethiel Knorth:
> > >[...]
> > >
> > > > However, I have doubts as to why that was put in the style guide in 
>the
> > > > first place. Quit means close the application in most other 
>instances,
> > >
> > >so
> > >[...]
> > >
> > >The windows *is* the application, from a nontechnical point of view.
> >
> > In many cases, this just isn't true. Consider The GIMP. It has one head
> > window and many other windows. It is appropriate that choosing Quit 
>closes
> > all of them. KMail can spawn extra windows, such as for writing an 
>email,
> > after starting up. Are they separate programs?
> >
> > >Additionally, you cannot tell whether two konqueror windows are 
>actually
> > >shared by the same process, or are running in different processes.
> > >Therefore,
> > >making Quit quit the process would lead to totally unpredictable
> > > behaviour.
> >
> > That is a slightly different issue. And, if you actually read through my
> > email, you will see that I do not want to just have Quit changed to 
>quiting
> > the process. Quoting myself: "Possibly, try using 'Close Tab', 'Close
> > Window', and 'Close Program'." You see, Quit in its current state should 
>be
> > changed to 'Close Window', as that is what it does. For a program such 
>as
> > The GIMP, it should say 'Close Program', and possibly the same for KMail
> > and similar programs which spawn what are clearly child-windows.
> >
>
>
>While I agree in principle that a Exit Program option should exist, I don't
>think it should be on the Location menu where it will add clutter and also
>confuse beginners who might think it synonymous with Close Window. How 
>about
>instead if we make it that when the user holds down Shift and clicks Close,
>it will close all Konqy windows? Most people don't really need this feature
>but if we put in a Kandalf tip then the advanced users will learn it's 
>there.

And I suggested placing a "Close Program" option in Konqueror when?

I said: "For a program such as The GIMP, it should say 'Close Program', and 
possibly the same for KMail and similar programs which spawn what are 
clearly child-windows."

Konqueror has one type of window, and it is not a child type window. Close 
Program should be used for programs which have child windows clearly spawned 
from a parent window, not programs like Konqueror which, when they spawn new 
windows the windows are virtually identical to the original.

As was already pointed out, you cannot determine if all Konqueror windows 
will be running in the same process, so it wouldn't even work consistently. 
Konqueror just needs to have 'Quit' renamed to 'Close Window', as do a lot 
of other programs (but not in KDE 3.x).

Also, the KDE 4 Style Guide needs to reflect the change, using 'Close Tab', 
'Close Window', and 'Close Program'. Possibly some other close commands, 
such as 'Close Frame' and 'Close File'. Basically, the close command needs 
to be more clearly defined and the quit command needs to be dropped, because 
quit is used inconsistently in other desktop programs and it makes the whole 
setup messy.

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