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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Recent locations: prototype ready
From:       Leo Savernik <l.savernik () aon ! at>
Date:       2004-06-16 20:38:50
Message-ID: 200406162238.52352.l.savernik () aon ! at
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Am Donnerstag 17 Juni 2004 01:39 schrieb Maurizio Colucci:
[...]
> > Certainly does it happen. First, leaving the window open is much faster
> > than reopen it.
>
> Sorry to contradict you, but this does not happen with proper caching.

Hehe. Having something already open is *always* faster than having yet to open 
it. No amount of prelinking, caching, optimizing, amount of MHz can change 
that. 

>
> > Second, being forced to create temporary bookmarks is bad
> > usability wise, because you forget to delete them.
>
> I must again contradict you: there is no difference with open windows. I
> mean, why don't we forget to close the open windows? Because the list of
> open windows becomes so long that we begin to have difficulty scanning it. 
[...]

Yeah, but the windows clutter your desktop. Therefore, you cannot forget them. 
OTOH, the bookmarks are neatly ordered by descending time in a neat 
menu/list. So the user doesn't have to care about how long the list acutally 
gets, he mostly needs bookmarks from the top region. That way he can gather 
virtually ten thousands of booksmarks without ever being disturbed by that 
fact.

[...]
> > Your proposal would mean
> > that every page, even if I only need it once, and then never again, has
> > to be bookmarked,
>
> For me, it is not more difficult than leaving it open (or surely can be
> made easier). Either way, you are essentially telling the system "I am
> going to need this location again". [...]

I usually know when I need a page later on beforehand. I don't know which 
browsing habits you have in mind, but when I follow a link in a half read 
article, I want to return to that article as is. Then I open the link in a 
new window. The links in the new window will also be opened in windows of 
their own. You see, we're conducting a tree like navigation, where the 
originating windows serve as a point for backtracking (i. e. I can continue 
where I left, and then follow other links, or quit). I don't see how this 
habit can be mapped to your single global history. (And yes, this *is* 
power-user behaviour. I've never seen any newbie intentionally open more than 
one window).
>
[...]
> > You know what I hate most about computer systems? When they think they
> > know better than me. If I haven't used a window for an hour, and then
> > decide to use it again,  it *becomes* effectively recent.
>
> Sorry Leo, this use case is fallacious, it does not prove anything good
> about the current approach. You say "I haven't used a window for an hour,
> THEN DECIDE to use it again." Unfortunately you decided too late: you have
> already closed it, so you can't find it. With both systems.

No, I already dediced an hour ago that I will need this window later. I only 
didn't know exactly when. Otherwise, I would have closed it/navigated to 
another page.

>
[...]
> > So what you mean is that the 5 windows show the 5 last recently used
> > locations? That furthermore means, that a single window loses its ability
> > to have its own history. Then it is totally useless to have more than one
> > window.
>
> Leo, you forget drag and drop.

Indeed, I forgot about it. However, it doesn't make sense to dnd a page from 
one window to another, leaving you with two windows showing the same page. I 
suppose you meant that bookmarks can be dnded.
>
[...]
> > As far as I see it, your proposal makes sense for a total noob, but will
> > turn out to be very annoying to the power user/developer.
>
> I hope we agree a bit more now.

Tell me how to map a tree-like navigation behaviour onto a single global 
history, so that one can easily backtrack (without having to look back over 
50 bookmarks/history items). Then I think we agree more.
>
[...]

mfg
	Leo
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